Please Help Me Evaluate HELOC options!

Please Help Me Evaluate HELOC options!

Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes

Hi BiggerPockets friends!

I am currently shopping for HELOC lenders for my primary residence in the hopes of leveraging the HELOC for real estate investments. I've spoken with several lenders so far, and am trying to figure out how to best evaluate the pros and cons of the different options. I've had different lenders that have provided wildly different valuations on my property, and have no idea why that would be the case. This makes it difficult to know where I will get the best terms.

For example:


Bank of America said that based on a quick desk review, they assessed my property's value to be $603,000. However, BofA had very high interest rates compared to other lenders even with my credit score (I have a credit score of 830), and BofA seems to only offer their better rates if you take an initial draw of a certain amount early on. I want to have the HELOC available and ensure the funds are there when the right deal comes up, but I don't like feeling like I have to take an initial draw in order to get better rates .

BECU offered better rates than BofA, and charges NO fees of any kind to open a HELOC (there are no closing costs, no annual fees, no origination costs, etc.) They also have no minimum draw requirements. BECU said I qualified for their best rate right now at 4.49% APR. They also offer an option to lock in up to three "fixed rate" draws at any given time with no additional fees to lock in the fixed rates. The fixed rate draws are at a higher interest rate, but with BECU the fixed rate option would be around 0.5%-1.0% higher than the variable rate, which seems significantly less than the fixed rate options through other lenders. It's also nice that BECU doesn't limit you to locking in three total fixed rate draw throughout the life of the draw period (like PenFed), but allows you an unlimited number of times that you can lock in a fixed rate, as long as you don't exceed three fixed rate draw at one time. Once you pay one of the fixed rate draws off, you can lock in another fixed rate draw if you wish to. This seems like a nice feature during a time when interest rates are rising, especially if the fixed rates they offer are not significantly higher than their variable rates. The other nice thing about BECU is that they told me they DO offer HELOCs on rental properties, even rental properties outside of the state that I live in. I like the idea of using one HELOC lender for all of my properties in the future, so this is appealing to me.
HOWEVER, after I began the application process with BECU and they ran my credit, they said that their desk review of my property came back lower than expected, at just $540,000. This is a significant difference from the valuation that BofA gave me. BECU said they couldn't justify ordering a full appraisal unless I paid for it. So, I'm trying to figure out if I should still go with BECU or see if I can get some better valuations elsewhere.


KeyBank's variable rates were better than BECU. KeyBank offers a 0.25% discount if you have a checking/savings account opened up with them, and with my credit that discount with KeyBank would put me right at the PRIME interest rate of 4.0% right now. They said I would essentially never go above the PRIME rate during my draw period with them based on my credit score. KeyBank charges minimal fees, just a $50 annual fee to keep the credit line open. They will also pay for an appraisal on the property, but they don't do an initial desk appraisal before they order a full appraisal, so I would essentially need to go through the full process with them and commit to them before they do the appraisal and let me know what they value my property at. KeyBank also offers a similar option to lock in up to three different draws at a fixed interest rate like BECU, but they charge $50 to lock and unlock the rate, and their fixed rates are SIGNIFICANTLY higher then the variable rate they offer (it would be over 7% to lock in a fixed rate, and they said that's far lower than it usually is with them). KeyBank will NOT offer HELOCs down the road on rental properties. 

PNC told me that my margin with them based on my credit would put me BELOW the PRIME rate by at least 0.25% (right now that would put me at about a 3.75% APR rate) and could be lower (I haven't officially applied with PNC yet to get pre-qualified). Their variable rate was the best I have been quoted so far. They also just have a $50 annual fee. They do allow you to lock in a fixed interest rate as well, but they charge $100 to lock and unlock the rate. There are no other fees through PNC.

Banner Bank here in Washington is a little bit different. They are actually offering a fixed rate of 4.25% for the first year, OR 4.75% for the first two years. After that first 12-24 months, you have the option to lock in another fixed rate for 1-2 years, or move to a variable rate. They do charge more fees than other lenders I've spoken with ($200 origination fee, and $125 annual fee). 


I'm curious to know what you all think is the most important thing to look at when it comes to these HELOC offers? Should I just be looking for the best margin and the lowest starting point for the variable rate? Should I care about the options to lock in a fixed interest draw (seems like this could be nice to have as an option if rates keep rising)? Is there any advantage to finding one lender to service HELOCs for my primary residence and any future rental properties I own, or should I simply find the best offer right now for my primary residence and then look for other lenders down the road when I am shopping for HELOCs for my rental properties?


Also, why is it that one bank (BofA) is estimating the value of my property to be over $60,000 higher than another lender (BECU)? 

Would love to hear from others ho are HELOC experts on here!

Thanks in advance,

Ryan



2Reply
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Most Popular Reply

Malcomb StapelPro Member
Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2020 · 669 posts · 488 votes
4y

@Ryan Anderson  wow, that was a lot of info to process. I've put some thoughts for you below;

1. Doesn't matter what the bank says on value, it's what the appraiser says it's worth that matters. 

2. Don't get too hung up on interest rates. A percent one way or the other on a interest only loan is going to be next to unnoticeable on those amounts. 

3. Don't get too hung up on $50 and $100 lock in fees. Once again, not a big deal when your cutting multi-thousand dollar checks for down payments on cash-flowing properties. 

See this reply in the discussion

15 Replies

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  • Malcomb StapelPro Member
    Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2020 · 669 posts · 488 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Anderson  wow, that was a lot of info to process. I've put some thoughts for you below;

    1. Doesn't matter what the bank says on value, it's what the appraiser says it's worth that matters. 

    2. Don't get too hung up on interest rates. A percent one way or the other on a interest only loan is going to be next to unnoticeable on those amounts. 

    3. Don't get too hung up on $50 and $100 lock in fees. Once again, not a big deal when your cutting multi-thousand dollar checks for down payments on cash-flowing properties. 

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    Hi Malcomb,

    Thank you SO much for wading through my message and responding! This is really helpful. 

    I'm curious, what do you primarily look for when you are trying to settle on a HELOC lender? If you don't focus too much on interest rates as long as they are within a percentage or so of one another, what's are the top things you want to know before you commit to go with a specific lender?

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    I agree with Malcomb, in my opinion interest rate is one of the last metrics to consider on a HELOC. The underlying question is what is the purpose of a HELOC? For me it is to use those funds to facilitate transactions that either aren't lendable or maybe are, but need short timelines. So it's a use it and repay it loan product for me, and whatever I buy with it should be able to pay back the funds once sold or refi'd etc. The alternative would probably be hard money at 1-2 point and 8-10% interest...so the HELOC is way cheaper than that.

    For me the biggest consideration is getting the maximum amount of credit possible. I want the most significant total $$$ available (within reason) so I have the most ability to use those $$$ for a property when needed. 

    As far as a rising rate environment...who cares? A deal is a deal based on the market at the time, not some perception of a future market and its conditions (again within reason). So if rates rise and your HELOC rate rises it still performs its function of being a quick source of comparatively cheap capital for an otherwise un-lendable property. You should still be looking to refi/sell to pay it back to free that capital resource back up.

    This is of course just my opinion...but several of your discussion points like being able to lock the rate on a balance and obtaining a lower interest rate seem to overlook the substance that this is a revolving product so treat it like one. Don't try to make this into a fixed rate type of product it won't ever be. 

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    For me, whoever will give me the most money is who I would want to use.  I use mine for short term financing so the interest rate doesn't matter much.

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt Devincenzo:

    I agree with Malcomb, in my opinion interest rate is one of the last metrics to consider on a HELOC. The underlying question is what is the purpose of a HELOC? For me it is to use those funds to facilitate transactions that either aren't lendable or maybe are, but need short timelines. So it's a use it and repay it loan product for me, and whatever I buy with it should be able to pay back the funds once sold or refi'd etc. The alternative would probably be hard money at 1-2 point and 8-10% interest...so the HELOC is way cheaper than that.

    For me the biggest consideration is getting the maximum amount of credit possible. I want the most significant total $$$ available (within reason) so I have the most ability to use those $$$ for a property when needed. 

    As far as a rising rate environment...who cares? A deal is a deal based on the market at the time, not some perception of a future market and its conditions (again within reason). So if rates rise and your HELOC rate rises it still performs its function of being a quick source of comparatively cheap capital for an otherwise un-lendable property. You should still be looking to refi/sell to pay it back to free that capital resource back up.

    This is of course just my opinion...but several of your discussion points like being able to lock the rate on a balance and obtaining a lower interest rate seem to overlook the substance that this is a revolving product so treat it like one. Don't try to make this into a fixed rate type of product it won't ever be. 


     Hi Matt, 

    This is really great. Thanks so much for your insight on this! 

    One question for you: How are you able to find out who can provide the maximum amount of credit without actually going through the full application process? I'm finding that most of these lenders will only order an appraisal once you actually apply. This makes it very difficult to shop around to find who can get me the maximum amount of credit, since that's largely based on the value of my property. KeyBank, for example, always orders a full appraisal if you decide to get a HELOC through them (no desktop appraisals). But that means I won't be able to know what my HELOC credit limit would be through KeyBank until after they've already ordered and paid for an appraisal, which kind of locks me in to using them. If I don't like the appraisal that comes back, I can't just back out without paying them to cover the cost of the appraisal.

    Bank of America is the only institution that was able to quickly tell me over the phone what their desktop appraisal is without requiring me to to through the full application process. Everyone else seems to require that I apply before they do any type of appraisal. How do I compare credit limits accurately without knowing how a specific lender will appraise my property?

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Dawn Brenengen:

    For me, whoever will give me the most money is who I would want to use.  I use mine for short term financing so the interest rate doesn't matter much.


    Thank you, Dawn! I'd love to get your thoughts on the question I posed to Matt. Are you mostly looking at how high your LTV is through a specific lender? Are you trying to find a lender who can get you as close to 100% LTV as possible? How are you able to figure out how different lenders will appraise your property without going through the full application process?

    Also, do you find that there are advantages to working with one lender for all of your HELOCs when possible (primary residence HELOC as well as rental property HELOCs)?

    Thank you so much again for your great insight!

  • Malcomb StapelPro Member
    Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2020 · 669 posts · 488 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Ryan Anderson:

    Hi Malcomb,

    Thank you SO much for wading through my message and responding! This is really helpful. 

    I'm curious, what do you primarily look for when you are trying to settle on a HELOC lender? If you don't focus too much on interest rates as long as they are within a percentage or so of one another, what's are the top things you want to know before you commit to go with a specific lender?


     I use local lenders, so I honestly don't look that hard. I have two that I alternate between because they both have useful products for our business and I like the players on their team. Things that I would be concerned with and want clarification is 

    1. Can they call the note due whenever they want? 

    2. Can they freeze the line of credit due to economic conditions? 

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    I only have one HELOC on my primary. I would first start with whoever is advertising that they give the most LTV. For instance, when I pulled my HELOC on my primary, I had about 100k in total equity in it. I was able to pull all 100k out because my credit union would finance up to 100% value (but they will only lend up to $100k). Most traditional banks will probably more like 75% LTV. So, start with whoever will lend the highest LTV and work that angle first. If you get a bad appraisal, then I might move on to another choice if I'm sure it should appraise for much higher.

    If you are pulling a HELOC on a rental, I'd check out PenFed and Figure

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Malcomb Stapel:
    Quote from @Ryan Anderson:

    Hi Malcomb,

    Thank you SO much for wading through my message and responding! This is really helpful. 

    I'm curious, what do you primarily look for when you are trying to settle on a HELOC lender? If you don't focus too much on interest rates as long as they are within a percentage or so of one another, what's are the top things you want to know before you commit to go with a specific lender?


     I use local lenders, so I honestly don't look that hard. I have two that I alternate between because they both have useful products for our business and I like the players on their team. Things that I would be concerned with and want clarification is 

    1. Can they call the note due whenever they want? 

    2. Can they freeze the line of credit due to economic conditions? 


     Thanks Malcomb! Have you found lenders that will tell you they CAN'T call a note due whenever they want? I was under the impression this was a universal thing and that all lenders had had this in their terms. 

    Likewise, have you found lenders who have said they won't freeze your line of credit due to economic conditions?

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    One more question for you all. I just got off the phone with a local credit union that offers up to 100% LTV on a primary mortgage, capped at $400,000. This is super appealing, however they do NOT offer an interest-only option. They require you to pay 1% of the balance of the account (principal and interest) at the end of each month. They have a 10 year draw period and a 10 year repayment period, so they require people to pay principal to keep the balance from ballooning at the end of the 10 year draw period.

    Do you all feel that having an interest-only account is critical? Would you ever consider getting a HELOC that was NOT an interest-only account? Does it matter to you if you are using it as a short-term tool?

    Thanks again for your help!

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    It wouldn't be critical for me.  Again, since it's such short term financing for me, 3 - 9 months, it wouldn't matter much.  You just need to decide what you're using it for and whether it makes sense for that goal.  But, with no other info, I think the credit union option you have might be a great one!

  • Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt Devincenzo:

    I agree with Malcomb, in my opinion interest rate is one of the last metrics to consider on a HELOC. The underlying question is what is the purpose of a HELOC? For me it is to use those funds to facilitate transactions that either aren't lendable or maybe are, but need short timelines. So it's a use it and repay it loan product for me, and whatever I buy with it should be able to pay back the funds once sold or refi'd etc. The alternative would probably be hard money at 1-2 point and 8-10% interest...so the HELOC is way cheaper than that.

    For me the biggest consideration is getting the maximum amount of credit possible. I want the most significant total $$$ available (within reason) so I have the most ability to use those $$$ for a property when needed. 

    As far as a rising rate environment...who cares? A deal is a deal based on the market at the time, not some perception of a future market and its conditions (again within reason). So if rates rise and your HELOC rate rises it still performs its function of being a quick source of comparatively cheap capital for an otherwise un-lendable property. You should still be looking to refi/sell to pay it back to free that capital resource back up.

    This is of course just my opinion...but several of your discussion points like being able to lock the rate on a balance and obtaining a lower interest rate seem to overlook the substance that this is a revolving product so treat it like one. Don't try to make this into a fixed rate type of product it won't ever be. 


    Hi Matt, 

    You mentioned that the biggest consideration for you is the maximum amount of credit possible. I currently have the option of getting a 90% LTV interest only line of credit from one lender that would equal out to a limit of $185,000, with an interest rate of Prime + 1%. Another lender will go up to 95% LTV (interest only) with a credit limit of $219,000 with an interest rate of Prime + 2.5%. Everything else between the two HELOC options is equal. In this instance would you opt for the higher credit limit? I'm trying to decide if I would ever use the full $219,000, and if it's worth having that much higher of a margin for $34,000 in additional credit. I suppose having the max amount of credit possible allows me more flexibility, but was just curious to hear your perspective (and anyone else's perspective as well!).

    Thanks for sharing your insight and experience with me as I start my REI journey!

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Sorry I missed the past replies and didn't see the questions until just now. As far as the appraisal and LTV, I'd initially base it on the stated LTV maximum and apply. If the lender's specific desktop appraisal comes in low you can usually then pay for a formal appraisal if needed. I'd likely still want to try and use that lender since they are the one with the highest stated LTV so it just becomes a valuation question.

    As far as I/o vs amortized, again this is short term so let's say 12 months of amortized payments vs 12 months of I/O payments the extra cost is maybe a few hundred $$$/mo. So again I'm not concerned with that since I plan to repay the funds ASAP anyway. In the grand scheme of things this is cheap cheap capital, I want to get the absolute maximum possible. If I never need the extra $$$ then great it didn't hurt to have the ability to use it, and if I do need even just a few thousand more then at least I have it which is also great.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 420 posts · 388 votes
    4y

    @Ryan Anderson one thing I haven't seen mentioned in the comments above. The reputation and staying power of the bank itself should be considered. There are a lot of fly by night lenders out there willing to cut rates to win business on the front end. They look very appealing at first glance. What happens 5 years down the road when that not so reputable bank goes out of business and you're $25k drawn down on a HELOC? The answer is likely that whoever buys that debt will immediately demand their payment in full from you. This happened to Grant Cardone, so it's not as rare as you may think at first bluff.

  • Beth JohnsonPro Member
    Lender · Renton, WA · Member since 2018 · 227 posts · 216 votes
    4y

    Hey Ryan - I am from WA area too and you did a great job summarizing some of the local/national options available. I, too, tried to do a HELOC on a 2nd home/investment property with Key Bank and found them to be too cumbersome to work with despite having all our business accounts there and getting a discount. I don't like options for desktop appraisals (AVMs) because the valuations will come in too conservative so a full blown appraisal HELOC is what you will want to look for, if you want to max out your equity line. Because I'm a business owner with complicated Schedule C and E income, I like going local because it's less hassle for me and I'd gladly pay higher rates for the ease of doing business with, as some others have said. So we ultimately went with East West Bank because I didn't want to max out my line but just get a simplified HELOC with low doc requirements. I used Steve Lo out of the Bellevue branch and it's strictly asset-based, non-recourse if it's in an LLC, from what he told me. This one was in my name. Another option that I hear a lot about is OBEE Credit Union out of Lacey. I hear they will go up to 90-100% LTV on HELOCs so you may look into that. At local REI meet-ups and forums, they get a lot of praise for being easy to work with and high LTVs.

    One last thought, I steer away from fixed rates because many of them require a principal portion to their monthly payments, making my monthly costs higher than if it were an interest only draw. I don't care to pay down my principal amount at all and I want to keep my monthly payments as low as possible because I lend out money from my HELOC into private loans so I can earn interest on the spread.

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