Has anyone heard of DTI being calculated like this with rental properties?

Has anyone heard of DTI being calculated like this with rental properties?

Rental Property Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2012 · 115 posts · 42 votes

I am applying for a mortgage. I have 3 rental properties on 2 years worth of tax returns (2011 & 2012). They all are cash flowing and show positive on my tax return (even after depreciation). They all became rentals some point in 2011 (halfway into the year on average). I was just told the mortgage company is taking my net income from the rentals, adding back depreciation, Taxes and insurances and then dividing by 12. They then take that number and subtract the mortgage payment (PITI). They do this for each year, add them together and divide by 2. They are getting a negative number and telling me this hurts my DTI ratio.
I have two issues with this. First, when they add back Depreciation taxes and insurance they don't add back the interest exp. When they deduct the mortgage payment that also includes the interest expense. They are essentially double counting the interest payment?

Has anyone heard of it calculated this way? Since I now have 2 years tax returns I was expecting them to just take the next income add back deprection and divide by 12 (24 for both years).

I also wish they did not divide 2011 by 12 as some properties I did not even own the whole year and none were rental properties until early summer.

I have heard before I have 2 full years tax returns its Rent *.75-PITI. Either of these other ways gives me cash flowing properties but when they double count the interest it puts me in the red. I do have two 15 and one 20 year mortgage properties so payments are higher then if spread over 30 months, but they still cash flow!

*This is a mortgage broker who will end up selling the mortgage*
Is this new to anyone else they way they are calculating this? The mortgage processor explained when he was taught he did the Net income plus depreciation but when he started working at this company they have him do it this way?
Thanks!
Daniel

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  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes
    13y

    They are supposed to annualize partial-year income, using the "placed in service" date on your Sch. E. This is straight out of Fannie's underwriting guidelines. If your stub period is extremely short (say 3 mths or less), it is reasonable that they would also compute using the 75% rule and take the lesser result. This is kind of judgmental.

    They should add back taxes, insurance, depr, and interest to taxable income, and then subtract off your current PITI to arrive at Net Cash Flow: if positive goes to the denominator as income, if negative goes to the numerator as debt.

    Are you sure that they are handling interest expense as you describe? That is patently wrong, and you should ask that another underwriter look at it, or demand to talk to a supervisor.

    Is their DTI calc killing your loan? If not, don't sweat it, but find another lender for future deals! Did you get a pre-approval from this company prior to purchasing your new property?

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2012 · 115 posts · 42 votes
    13y

    David, Thank you for your response. I am sure That's how they are calculating, I talked to their processor who explained it that way and then I built my own excel to double check, I got the same numbers he got by not adding back interest and deducting the payment. My properties were in service 122, 214 and 153 fair rental days per my 2011 tax return. My credit score was in the 760's, I have the downpayment/reserves, income is what is killing me on this deal. They are showing the rentals are negative $270/month the way they are calculating it. If i add back interest exp on both years and use the fair rental days on the 2011 I get average rental income of $1,085.03. It makes a big difference!
    This will be our primary residence so having to calculate our current mortgage and the potential new one causes us to be tight on the the DTI.
    Thanks again!
    Daniel

  • Investor · SE, MI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 461 votes
    13y

    Hi Daniel,

    I think you need to find another lender. They aren't calculating it right, and aren't able to see that they are making an error.

    Our mortgage guy gave me the same formula- .75Xrent-PITI and two years' worth of rental income PER HOUSE on your tax returns. I still think that formula is messed up, mainly since it does not take into account whether or not you pay utilities so for the DTI calculation you are better off charging more rent and covering the utilities :) but at lease it isn't charging you twice for anything...

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