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Updated over 1 year ago on . Most recent reply
Is using a FannieMae instrument legal?
I have seen private money lenders use FannieMae/FreddieMac documents for private money mortgages that are not associated with either one. Is this ok?
thanks.
Most Popular Reply
You mean like the 1003? Or you are talking about riders to sign at closing? Any mortgage loan is still going to have disclosures, ins and outs, contractual agreements... Please be more specific with a question that we can answer. Are you speaking of conventional vs NonQM or vs hard money? Private money is a vague category.
You mean like the 1003? Or you are talking about riders to sign at closing? Any mortgage loan is still going to have disclosures, ins and outs, contractual agreements... Please be more specific with a question that we can answer. Are you speaking of conventional vs NonQM or vs hard money? Private money is a vague category.
Ok sorry. I have seen mortgage notes recorded with "Fannie Mae /Freddie Mac instrument " written on the border bottom with loans from private lenders.
So these mortgages are not backed by Fannie/Freddie but the documents being used for private mortgages belong to F/F. Is that ok? Is it legal to use those documents if F/F have no role in the loan?
It's just words. Fannie or Freddie would not care to consider this copyright infringement. HUD is the enforcing entity. HUD requires certain language on credit instruments. You know if it is the current form as they change all the time?
All lenders are required to develop and obtain forms that comply with state and federal laws.
Again, "private mortgages" isn't a technical term or specific "thing."
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
It's just words. Fannie or Freddie would not care to consider this copyright infringement. HUD is the enforcing entity. HUD requires certain language on credit instruments. You know if it is the current form as they change all the time?
All lenders are required to develop and obtain forms that comply with state and federal laws.
Again, "private mortgages" isn't a technical term or specific "thing."
I am trying to determine what is legal and the terminology. If someone issues a mortgage from a trust for a primary residence without being licensed using a Fannie/Freddie note document, where would one begin to see the legality? HUD doesn't oversee or regulate mortgages lent from private lenders. It doesn't even oversee mortgages lent from banks. HUD only oversees FHA mortgages far as I know.
so if an unlicensed lender wants to trick a borrower into seeing the loan as legit by using Fannie, Freddie or FHA approved mortgage notes and filling in blanks, is that legit use of those documents?
@Martin A Phillips
Yes
You can use those and it is recommended in many instances for safe harbor - meaning a borrower cannot sue due to terms that are usury or illegal.
We use them all the time
- Chris Seveney
FTC, CFBP enforce lending laws. FBI investigates. HUD is the mission regulator for Fannie and Freddie. Banks don't make lending laws and most all of their loans are sold on secondary market (MBS). Banks are regulated and often have their own extra rules called overlays. Employee in a bank has different license than one at a mortgage banker or broker.
A "lender" loaning money as a mortgage on residential owner occupied 1-4 units must be licensed. The company also has to have a license. (annually pass background/credit, have enough reserve money to pay fines, do annual classes...) here's the rules for CA https://mortgage.nationwidelicensingsystem.org/slr/Pages/Dyn... there are federal and state by state rules. State where you are registered, state where property sits and federal laws must be followed. https://dfpi.ca.gov/california-financing-law/california-fina... You have to be licensed to quote or advertise rates, and to service a loan is a different license. There are $$ fines and jail time. SAFE ACT. It's not the forms that catch you - every recording is public and tracked. Every loan recorded in America is tracked by unique ID license number on certain documents.
Some states allow business purpose loans and these are scrutinized by three Federal Agencies and also at state level.
What state are you talking about?
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
FTC, CFBP enforce lending laws. FBI investigates. HUD is the mission regulator for Fannie and Freddie. Banks don't make lending laws and most all of their loans are sold on secondary market (MBS). Banks are regulated and often have their own extra rules called overlays. Employee in a bank has different license than one at a mortgage banker or broker.
A "lender" loaning money as a mortgage on residential owner occupied 1-4 units must be licensed. The company also has to have a license. (annually pass background/credit, have enough reserve money to pay fines, do annual classes...) here's the rules for CA https://mortgage.nationwidelicensingsystem.org/slr/Pages/Dyn... there are federal and state by state rules. State where you are registered, state where property sits and federal laws must be followed. https://dfpi.ca.gov/california-financing-law/california-fina... You have to be licensed to quote or advertise rates, and to service a loan is a different license. There are $$ fines and jail time. SAFE ACT. It's not the forms that catch you - every recording is public and tracked. Every loan recorded in America is tracked by unique ID license number on certain documents.
Some states allow business purpose loans and these are scrutinized by three Federal Agencies and also at state level.
What state are you talking about?
Thank you for the answer. I understand the regulations for conventional mortgage lenders, however, I am discussing the isdues surrounding a guy with a trust fund lending money for private mortgages and using forms used by Fannie/Freddie he downloaded off the internet. HUD oversees Fannie/Freddie? I thpught HUD oversees only FHA loans? I know there are specific regulations for FHA loans and anyone using FHA forms without being approved by FHA would be in a LOT of trouble with the feds since only approved lenders can issue FHA loans. I was wonderiing if Freddie/Fannie had approved lenders too or if amyone can just represent themselves as approved to use their forms.
@Martin A Phillips
Anyone can use their forms, for a private deal that is non owner occupied the deed of trust: mortgage is pretty standard but note typically has added language and other docs such as a personal guarantee or assignment of rents
- Chris Seveney
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Martin A Phillips
Anyone can use their forms, for a private deal that is non owner occupied the deed of trust: mortgage is pretty standard but note typically has added language and other docs such as a personal guarantee or assignment of rents
Thank you and I believe you. Can you show me where it says that? I see where F/F both require an application to be a lender for them, so that's where my confusion is. Does one need approval to use the forms? If not, then wouldn't scammers be able to use F/F forms to look more legit?
If you are using trust fund money to do mortgages on 1-4 units you need to be licensed and so does your company. Approval process for GSE's somewhat similar read: https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/8071/display Accounting, legal, and compliance reporting.
Forget the form you are not seeing the forest from a single sprout.
Go work under a mortgage banker to learn more before you start this plan.
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
If you are using trust fund money to do mortgages on 1-4 units you need to be licensed and so does your company. Approval process for GSE's somewhat similar read: https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/8071/display Accounting, legal, and compliance reporting.
Forget the form you are not seeing the forest from a single sprout.
Go work under a mortgage banker to learn more before you start this plan.
Not sure where you are seeing me say any of this is "my plan" but others have been helpful with more accurate information that was responsive to my original question.
Quote from @Martin A Phillips:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Martin A Phillips
Anyone can use their forms, for a private deal that is non owner occupied the deed of trust: mortgage is pretty standard but note typically has added language and other docs such as a personal guarantee or assignment of rents
Thank you and I believe you. Can you show me where it says that? I see where F/F both require an application to be a lender for them, so that's where my confusion is. Does one need approval to use the forms? If not, then wouldn't scammers be able to use F/F forms to look more legit?
It says right on the site you can use them, and others use them in case they ever want to securitize their loans they must be on this form.
- Chris Seveney
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Martin A Phillips:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Martin A Phillips
Anyone can use their forms, for a private deal that is non owner occupied the deed of trust: mortgage is pretty standard but note typically has added language and other docs such as a personal guarantee or assignment of rents
Thank you and I believe you. Can you show me where it says that? I see where F/F both require an application to be a lender for them, so that's where my confusion is. Does one need approval to use the forms? If not, then wouldn't scammers be able to use F/F forms to look more legit?
It says right on the site you can use them, and others use them in case they ever want to securitize their loans they must be on this form.
I saw that on the Fannie website but that forms and documents page is generated by a link on the lender application for Fannie's approval to issue a Fannie-backed mortgage. I always took it as granting access to approved lenders.
I don't see any more or challenges to it though, and you're right, it seems most people use it.
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“so if an unlicensed lender wants to trick a borrower into seeing the loan as legit by using Fannie, Freddie or FHA approved mortgage notes and filling in blanks, is that legit use of those documents?”
The highlights are mine.
Lending is not for you, @Martin A Phillips. You don’t “trick a borrower into seeing the loan as legit...” In fact, you don’t “trick” them into anything. Not only is this NOT how you do business, but you will discredit yourself as you’ve done here, in my view.
Though an astute borrower will always ask their lender where they get their money, and especially if they sell their loans, most really don’t care (though they should). You don’t seem to realize that you actually have a competitive advantage in that you will be the lender for the life of the loan and can provide accommodations larger lenders, who either sell their loans or accept investors, can’t. Borrowers appreciate this if you market yourself appropriately.
In a prior post of yours, that I participated in, I believe you indicated you were from Nevada. Here, you absolutely must be a licensed broker and also work from a brick-and-mortar office. In your case, that means using a broker to originate your loans. The last thing you need is to play the games you seem interested in and have a borrower contest your loan. I guarantee a judge won’t look at you as some, “... guy with a trust fund lending money for private mortgages.” Not when you’re trying to trick people.
Instead, try lending with some integrity. Why don’t you find a broker willing to originate your loans for you for a modest fee using their legally vetted loan docs? (Of course, you realize that the loan docs downloaded from Fannie or Freddie are not a complete loan package. Yes?) While you’re at it, you might speak to a lending attorney to learn the process in your state. This would include a discussion on licensing, usury, paperwork, and representations.
Sorry to be harsh, but lending is way too easy to play these games, Martin A Philips. I don’t know where you’re getting your advice, but you’re on the wrong track.
Quote from @Jeff S.:
“so if an unlicensed lender wants to trick a borrower into seeing the loan as legit by using Fannie, Freddie or FHA approved mortgage notes and filling in blanks, is that legit use of those documents?”
The highlights are mine.
Lending is not for you, @Martin A Phillips. You don’t “trick a borrower into seeing the loan as legit...” In fact, you don’t “trick” them into anything. Not only is this NOT how you do business, but you will discredit yourself as you’ve done here, in my view.
Though an astute borrower will always ask their lender where they get their money, and especially if they sell their loans, most really don’t care (though they should). You don’t seem to realize that you actually have a competitive advantage in that you will be the lender for the life of the loan and can provide accommodations larger lenders, who either sell their loans or accept investors, can’t. Borrowers appreciate this if you market yourself appropriately.
In a prior post of yours, that I participated in, I believe you indicated you were from Nevada. Here, you absolutely must be a licensed broker and also work from a brick-and-mortar office. In your case, that means using a broker to originate your loans. The last thing you need is to play the games you seem interested in and have a borrower contest your loan. I guarantee a judge won’t look at you as some, “... guy with a trust fund lending money for private mortgages.” Not when you’re trying to trick people.
Instead, try lending with some integrity. Why don’t you find a broker willing to originate your loans for you for a modest fee using their legally vetted loan docs? (Of course, you realize that the loan docs downloaded from Fannie or Freddie are incomplete. Yes?) While you’re at it, you might speak to a lending attorney to learn the process in your state. This would include a discussion on licensing, usury, paperwork, and representations.
Sorry to be harsh, but lending is way too easy to play these games, Martin A Philips. I don’t know where you’re getting your advice, but you’re on the wrong track.
Everyone is deciding that I am the person acting illegally because I inquired about the legality of what I see others doing.
please stop the lectures.
I'm not sure how the lender would trick the borrower by using the forms - they wouldn't typically see the loan documents until the very end of the process, at closing, which should be handled by a title company or closing attorney depending on the state. If you're unsure whether a lender is licensed to do business, or following lending laws, you might want to consider getting representation to look everything over.
- Stephanie Medellin
- stephanie@instantratequotes.com
Quote from @Stephanie Medellin:
I'm not sure how the lender would trick the borrower by using the forms - they wouldn't typically see the loan documents until the very end of the process, at closing, which should be handled by a title company or closing attorney depending on the state. If you're unsure whether a lender is licensed to do business, or following lending laws, you might want to consider getting representation to look everything over.