Asking for a friend - Joint Venture (JV) LLC deal

Asking for a friend - Joint Venture (JV) LLC deal

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles CA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 1 vote

Hey BP Community,

Another head scratcher for you. This post is actually a description of a situation my friend is in. He asked my input simply because he knows I'm interested in real estate investing. I'm not sure what to advise, so I come to you, honorable folk of the BP message boards!

CONTEXT:

- My friend, B, is a high income doctor in Los Angeles. I have no idea how much money he makes, but let's call it $500k. 35, single, renting, but looking to buy a first home/investment property.

- B's friend, N, is a medium income professional in Los Angeles. I have no idea how much she makes, but let's call it $100k. 35, single mother, renting. Super responsible with money and so forth, but does not quite see a path to home ownership and wealth creation in Los Angeles, given the price of properties here, the high downpayment, etc.

- The Property is an $850k lot with two 2/1 homes on it. The monthly cost is about $4000. Market rental prices: upper home could rent for $2000, and the lower home could rent for $2500. 

SPECIFIC SITUATION:

- B can buy the home as-is, and run it is a rental and/or owner-occupied. B has enough capital for 20% down, closing, and even $50k of rehab. This would not be financially challenging for him.

- At the same time, B is very good friends with N, and they are upfront about their respective financial situations. B offered to N rent one of the units at a slightly sub-market rate, in exchange for playing a "property manager" role.

- B then realized that, rather than having N be a tenant, there may be a way for him to help N earn equity/create wealth. Rather than just renting from B, N could buy into the property with a small downpayment, and through monthly payments over time. Two options could exist for this:

Option 1: B buys the property independently, then explores creating a TIC (Tenants in Common). This would parcel out the two units, and he could sell the second unit to N. Because N may not have capital upfront, B could offer a seller financed deal for the unit. This would keep the units effectively separate, and N would eventually clearly own one of the units, and B would clearly own the other unit.

Option 2: B buys the property, with some downpayment+closing+rehab cost support from N. Suppose the total amount required is $250k. B could put in $225k, and N could put in $25k. The two would then put the property into an LLC, with shareholding split 90% to B and 10% to N. The two would then pay market rents to the LLC, and share in equity upside upon the future sale of the property, or on rental profit upside under future buy-and-hold scenarios. Does the 90/10 split sound fair, or is N's participation closer to 3% (25k/900k)?

What are your thoughts, BP Community, about this situation? How can B provide N a great place to live and offer a path to wealth creation, while also keeping all Terms and Conditions above board? B is a new investor and wants a return, but does not want to be overly extractive towards N (i.e. wants to give N a good deal and a path to ownership). This is B's first deal and he will likely have the ability (due to his income) to do more in the future. His goal is not to financially crush this deal out of the park - particularly with N being a good friend.

Similarly, how does N know she is getting a good deal? What are some of the downside risks for her?

Looking forward to comments - pros and cons - lessons learned - tips from folks that have been in similar situations. Links to other articles, deal precedents, forum posts are always welcome. 

Many thanks!

Roy


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  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 326 posts · 266 votes
    6y

    I like simple and option 1 would be the simplest and cost effective. It allows both the opportunity they are looking for. If she decides she longer wants the home or somethings changes the home can be recovered with no real issues. The only issue I see is if they can split the property like that.

  • Rental Property Investor · Newport News, VA · Member since 2018 · 264 posts · 130 votes
    6y

    Hey,

    I wouldn't trust N as a property manager unless he had a lot of experience in this space.

    B should receive more than 90% equity in the LLC because he has the loan in his name. This isn't a commercial building so it's probably not a non-recourse loan.

    In the commercial real estate world we give the loan guarantor (person signing for the loan) a lump sum of 3 - 5% of the loan (or 0.5% - 1% if it's non-recourse). However, it's a one time payment and they don't receive equity. In this case B would have a loan in his name for $680k (20% of $850k = $170K) so N would give B $20,400 - $34,000 up front for the risk of the loan.

    Or if N doesn't have the money to pay B for the risk of carrying the loan, he could receive less equity for his money.

    Just another viewpoint :)

    Best,

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles CA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Thanks @Erickson Sainval for your thoughts. Yes, we'd need to explore this a bit more. TICs are increasingly common in the LA market however we don't yet have visibility into the process of how they are implemented and processed.


    Thanks @Jesse Daconta - these are some super interesting and helpful industry benchmarks. In the lending scenario you're proposing, N would essentially hold full equity of the property, while B would still hold the downside risk of the loan? That seems like quite a deal for N, for only a one-off payment of 5% (~$30k in this scenario as you mentioned) to B as effectively a lender only with no equity stake. Am I missing something? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Newport News, VA · Member since 2018 · 264 posts · 130 votes
    6y

    @Roy Marks

    It works well with a multi-million dollar complex because the loan guarantor usually signs the loan for a team that has a proven track record. It's a quick buck for the loan guarantor (sometimes they reinvest the fee into the limited partner side).

    What I'm proposing is the following:

    Scenario 1 (no fee paid to B): B receives more than 90% of the LLC between B and N because B is putting up 90% of the funds and signing for the loan. N receives less than 10% of the LLC (whatever % deduction you guys agree on for the risk of the loan defaulting). B still puts down $225k and N still puts down $25k.

    Scenario 2 (fee paid to B): B receives 90% of the LLC + $30k from N and N receives 10% of the LLC because they're only bringing 10% of the money and don't have the risk of the loan defaulting. B puts down $195k ($225k - $30k) and N puts down $55k (original $25k + $30k fee) + the % breakdown above for scenario 2.

    I might make this sound more confusing than it actually is lol. Sorry!

    Best,

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles CA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Jesse Daconta Awesome - many thanks for this. And yes, fully appreciate that this model works well on large complexes where the funding volumes are large and experienced lenders can earn a quick and attractive fee on their capital/balance sheet (with a de-risked development team). 

    Totally got it on Options 1 and 2. Will consider this further! Again, great to have that 3-5% data point as a lender fee.

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