Mom & Uncle joint heirs - how to separate?

Question

My grandparents on Mom's side were long divorced.  Both had property and passed away in the last few years.

Grandfather had a house he lived in, and a rental.  These were willed to my Mom and Uncle 50% each.

Grandmother had a house and some cash in a Trust (still is).  Trust belongs to Mom and Uncle 50% also.  Uncle has POA/control over the trust.

Uncle decided to finance the rent house to tenant.  He's been there 20  years already.  No issues here, Mom agreed, and doesn't care to have that $$.

Mom and uncle have decided that Uncle will keep Grandfathers house, and Mom will keep Grandma's house (which is in the trust in both names).

Grandfather's house is probably worth $10-20K more, and neither plan on selling.  Uncle is renting out Grandfather's house, and Mom lives in Grandma's house.

How do we get Grandma's house into Mom's name, and Grandfathers house into Uncle's name?

Thanks for your help.

Account Closed · Answer

Shane:  your Mother and Uncle will be better served and you will learn more if they go to attorney and explain what they want to do.  You can then come back here and ask specific questions about anything you don't understand or want to know more about.  There are tax implications and other issues that no one here can advise on.  I've seen things like this get really screwed up with DIY paperwork.  Find an estate attorney, as your Mother and Uncle should seek advise on both how to transfer and then how to hold the properties.

Account Closed · Answer

If Grandmother's estate was all held in trust with your mother and uncle as the only benes, then it's just some easy paperwork to transfer title. The successor trustee(s) named in the trust can deed the property to your Mom and Uncle and then your Uncle can deed his share to your Mom.

Not sure what's going on with Grandfather's estate as you say there was a will.  Was the estate probated and who holds title to the property now?

Doesn't sound like any of this is DIY for your family members.  They need to get to an attorney and explain what they want to do.

Shane Woods · Answer

Hey @Brian P, thanks for your thoughts.  Uncle had her POA before Grandma died, and was(is still) trustee for the trust that he and mom have 50-50 ownership of out of probate.

Brian P. · Answer

To me this seems like a very simple problem that can be resolved in a week, the only glitch I see on the table is what are the uncles true intentions. joint tenancy's are are easy to break if uncle is not really into the 50-50 split game and your mother can give you POA or place her share in a trust that passes to you when she dies.. Does he have heirs?

The other thing that bothered me as was stated is how did uncle get a valid POA after death, as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have one.     are you confusing his status as trustee of the trust with a POA, and remember trustees can be removed or changed.

Sounds like a snow job. Plus the trustee has legal obligations to all the beneficiaries of the trust and acting for his benefit without equal benefit to the other would be a violation.

My brother in law was screwed over by his two brothers and sister and ended up with nothing when his father died and he was upset. He and I drove to his home state and I reviewed every thing, found a good lawyer and when the dust settled he ended up with half of everything instead of zero. There are three of his siblings that are sorry they didn't take my advice to play nice and split it 4 ways and part in peace.

Any way it will be interesting to hear how this turns out.

Shane Woods · Answer

My thoughts exactly Jon Holdman.  Thanks again!  Mom has never even seen Grandma's will or the trust documents.  Or even Grandfather's will for that matter...my uncle handled it all because my Mom just doesn't understand any of it.  That was a wise choice by both Grandparents to give him POA, but for Mom's benefit, I need to understand where it all stands.  It's on my list of to-do's to have lunch with my Uncle soon & see if what I've been told is even right...

Thanks again for the insight everyone.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Shane Woods its perfectly reasonable to try to sort this out now.  I guarantee you its much easier to sort this out while people are still alive than after they pass.  When my grandfather died about 15 years ago, my dad worked with an attorney to sort out ownership of our family farm.  It was quite a mess, having been in the family for about 100 years and having gone through several confusing and conflicting wills.  A series of new deeds of various sorts were created to get the right pieces owned by the right people.  When my grandmother passed recently, the process was much simpler.

Shane Woods · Answer

Thanks again for all responses.  Knowing my family, it'll be on me to do something.  Dion DePaoli, I see where you're going...and understand.  But in her defense, the only ego-related issues involved with removing my uncle from the trust on Grandma's house, is my Mom's irrational fear that he'll take the house somehow if she passes.  Her health isn't all that good, and she's worried about her half of Grandma's estate going to my uncle instead of my Dad or me.  This is the reason I'm looking into it.  Mostly to help my mom feel better about the situation, and see what her options are.

Dion DePaoli · Answer

Before you run out and start quit claiming deeds I suggest you speak to a competent real estate and trust attorney.  The transfer of title could eliminate any homestead tax exemption the trust holds on the property and thus drastically increase the property tax bill.

Also you will still want to ensure you document all terms of the trust for future liability amongst each other.  This is also provided the trust allows for the event in the first place.

Some of what it sounds like what you want to do is a bit ego driven since they have agreed to asset distributions and I am sure the trust documents are specific to asset allocation.  Its not my  specialty by any means but at a glance there is no real benefit to removing the home from the trust to place in your mom's name and might be a net negative at the end of the day.

Good luck.

Jon Holdman · Answer

POA's end at death.  Having had the POA can be helpful for persuading someone you really do have the ability to do something, but legally it ends at death.

The trust matters if you want it to.  If you want to keep the trust you would change the beneficial ownership of the trust.  If you don't want to keep the trust, the trust would convey ownership to your uncle.

An attorney can sort out all the details.

Shane Woods · Answer

Dale Osborn & K. Marie Poe Thanks for your input! I absolutely plan on hiring an attorney to handle this eventually.  I know my parents won't.   I try to do as much homework as possible when kinds of things come up, because my parents don't know a whole lot about any of this.  And I like to know everything about everything.  I want to understand the process, if for no reason other than my own comfort.

K. Marie,  I'm not really sure exactly how it worked through probate with Grandfather's property, I just know that it's in Mom and Uncle's name now (if I was told correctly).  Uncle had POA over Grandfather's property also, if that matters?