How much is too much?

Question

I have been debating what percentage of my income to keep investing in my retirement accounts through my employer and thought it may be beneficial to ask if anyone had reasons for or against contributing more than required for your employer’s match. Ideally, rental properties will be my “retirement plan”; however, it’s always a good idea to have multiple streams of income. I receive a 11% match for only contributing 5% into our retirement plan. Although I don’t NEED the extra income in my paycheck, I was curious if anyone felt like the extra percentage of their income helped them invest in real estate. Currently I am investing 10% into my plan (in addition to the employer’s match of 11% for a total of 21%), but have considered lowering it to the required 5%. Obviously, my tax liability will increase but it’s not significant enough to sway me one way or the other. Would a couple thousand bucks in your pocket annually make enough difference when it comes to investing or is it beneficial to save a little extra in retirement?

Please note, I will ALWAYS contribute the required 5% to receive my employer's match. I am never going to give up free money, so that's not part of the discussion.

Please note, I will ALWAYS contribute the required 5% to receive my employer's match. I am never going to give up free money, so that's not part of the discussion.

Chinmay J. · Answer

I am inferring that you are talking about 401K, although you haven't stated explicitly.  I only put in my 401K up to the point that I get a match from the employer.  When the employer reaches their cap, I stop.  I don't need extra money in my paycheck, but again I am single, no wife, no gf, no kids, no dogs, cats or goldfish. I also don't see a point in locking in more money than I need to.

Steve Vaughan · Answer

I’d do up to the match, then Roth. Tax free on hundreds of thousands later is better than a deduction now on contributions, especially if in a lower bracket.

There are good uses for an SDIRA like lending or maybe flipping, but not holding rentals. There are a thousand rules and you don’t get to depreciate.

Good luck out there @Amy Herzing !

Jody Schnurrenberger · Answer

For me, part of it depends on your own strengths and weaknesses.  I'm a total spender.  I know it.  I'm not going to change it.  It's just who I am.  Thus, I learned to channel that more appropriately.  I like properties to be paid off.  (I know, some folks disagree, but that's another topic for another thread.)  When I first bought my house, my mortgage was something like $700/month, but I always had just enough to get by, never more and never less.  So, I decided my mortgage was $1000.  In fact, I purposely didn't know the exact amount so I wouldn't be tempted to pay that amount in a "lean" month.  Miraculously, I always found the $1000.  Now, some months, perhaps due to a bonus or Christmas gifts or whatever, I'd have even more money.  I'd put that toward the house as well.  I knew I'd just waste it on something stupid if I didn't, so l managed paid it off in 12 1/2 years while making less than $30k.  Not too bad for a spender.  :-)

I joined the Army and after I paid off my house, I decided to add to my Thrift Savings Plan (Army 401K).  I'd started at the recommended 10% when I joined, then every time I got a raise or a promotion, I bumped it up that same percentage until I reached 25%.  For 7 years I never saw a raise in my actual pay check because it was all going to my TSP.  I figured I managed to live on that amount last year, I can again this year.

Well, now that I got medically retired, I'm no longer able to contribute to that, so I'm back to figuring out what to do with my "extra" money so as not to waste it.  I just bought a house.  I bought it through a line of credit against my stock market because they wanted to close with cash and quickly.  However, I plan to refinance to a traditional mortgage.  Partly, I want to be able to free up that line of credit in case I need it again.  Partly, because I'm just going to waste my money on something stupid if I don't get rid of it another way.  Paying a mortgage seems like the perfect way.  The renters will be paying it as well, so the house should get paid off very quickly.  :-D

I'm not a saver, but I've found ways to have something set aside for the future.  I always say, "Life isn't about being perfect.  It's about working around your imperfections."  If you know you can save, maybe split the difference between your 401K and your impending property purchase account.  But if you know you can't save (no shame in it, just shame in not knowing it), then put it away in the 401K.

Take a good, realistic look at your abilities and your plans.  See what fits best.  :-)  Good luck!

Jack B. · Answer

It seems like people are only thinking of the 401K match amount and forgetting about reducing your taxable income. I would either max out your 401K to reduce taxable income (I max mine out the first 3 paychecks of the year to get the benefit in case I get fed up and quit) or do an IRA or both if your income allows it. It depends on your income though. If your income is below the level where you can still do a 401K and IRA and get both deductions, then I would do that and max them both. I'm considered by the IRS to be a HCE (highly compensated employee) so I max out my 401K only as I don't get an IRA deduction if I put ANY money into a 401K during the year, any at all...even if I don't max it out. As such I don't have the benefit of reducing my taxable income with the IRA once I contribute anything to a 401K. And I still get enough cash savings after doing all of this to save money to buy houses. Don't put all your eggs in one basket either....

Dean H. · Answer

@Amy Herzing

Amy I'm an old man but if I were you I would contribute every dime that I could get an employer match on. I would then do the necessary conversions to get it into a self directed checkbook IRA and invest in long term rentals. My wife and I are following that strategy and I sure wish I was your age not mine. Totally awesome that your thinking it thru at your age.

Brian Eastman at Safeguard advisors set ours up but there are others

Scott Smith · Answer

SDIRA's are fairly simple to set up. Kingdom Trust is the cheapest provider for Custodian services

James Mc Ree · Answer

You could reduce your 401k contribution to the 5% match level and shift the remainder to a traditional or Roth IRA contribution.  That would give you the same deduction (traditional) or you pay tax but have tax free earnings (Roth).  You would also be able to invest in the same type of investment products if that is something you want to do.  Potentially the most significant advantage is you can access your IRA funds through a self-directed IRA or the principle can be withdrawn after a period of time without penalty.  You can't do that with a 401k.

I recently made this switch, but switched to Section 506 investing and real estate with the remainder funds.  I do have to pay tax on the shifted income, but then have full flexibility to invest as is best versus just what is in the plan.

Good luck!

Jim.

Dmitriy Fomichenko · Answer

Amy,

SDIRA can be great tool in your overall wealth building strategy. The most important aspect is understanding the rules, you have a lot of freedom how to invest with this tool, but there are some restrictions that you must know in order to avoid prohibited transaction.

Also, depending on your investment strategy you may go with the custodial account or opt for "checkbook control".

Amy H. · Answer

@Dean H. I definitely will always contribute enough to get their generous match, I always have. I'll have to research what fees are associated with converting into a SDIRA. Have you ran into any issues using an SDIRA for long term rentals?

Amy H. · Answer

@Steve Vaughan I definitely need to look into diversifying into a Roth. A good goal to start out the new year! Especially because you always hope that your tax bracket will be higher when you retire. I'll definitely always do the 401k match because it's a very generous match, and I love free money!

I need to look more into SDIRA this weekend when I have some down time. I think I need to read more about them to really understand the pros and cons.

Thanks for your help!

How much is too much?

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