Cash-On-Cash: Lots of misunderstanding out there

Cash-On-Cash: Lots of misunderstanding out there

Investor · Oxford, NC · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 15 votes

I see a lot of people saying things like "My cash on cash return is 12% on this property and that's a lot better than my mutual funds have been doing in the market."  I get the impression that they are comparing a 12% return that isn't compounded, with an 8% or so return that is compounded and thinking they are a lot better off.

If you bought a $100K rental property, put 20% down, and generated a 20% cash-on-cash return with that property for 10 years, you would end up with about $60K total ($4,000 x 10 years, plus initial investment).  If you took that same $20K and invested it in the market, you would need to generate a compounded return of a little over 11.5% to reach that same amount.  The point is that the two are not comparable and I hear a lot of conversations among real estate investors (maybe newer investors) where I don't think many of them understand that.

Obviously for this example I didn't include any rental income that would be reinvested, which essentially is where you would get your compounding from. But you need to make sure you really understand that difference to truly evaluate the opportunity cost. If you are going out there and buying rental properties with a target of a 12% COC renturn and planning to supplement your income with the rental profits instead of reinvesting, you might as well go put it in a mutual fund with 8% returns. It stresses the need to go for much higher cash-on-cash returns, which means putting the work in to find the truly great deals.

Disclaimer...I know we didn't consider appreciation, pay down, and tax savings here.  Just trying to make the point of making sure you really understand cash-on-cash if you are going to use it as one of your determinate metrics.  I'm not an accounting or finance guy so I may have my terminlogy wrong, but am I right in general here?

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Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y

Once you throw in all the other factors you mention CoC is nearly impossible to calculate after the first year of ownership of a property.

It is also very common for investors to inflate their returns to make themselves feel better about their investment.

No point in even talking about appreciation and pay down of mortgage as those are again numbers many prefer to ignore when calculating CoC.

These are the primary reasons I prefer to leverage to the max in real estate and park my cash in better vehicles.

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  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Once you throw in all the other factors you mention CoC is nearly impossible to calculate after the first year of ownership of a property.

    It is also very common for investors to inflate their returns to make themselves feel better about their investment.

    No point in even talking about appreciation and pay down of mortgage as those are again numbers many prefer to ignore when calculating CoC.

    These are the primary reasons I prefer to leverage to the max in real estate and park my cash in better vehicles.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    Yes you're wrong.  You're not comparing apples to apples...on many fronts:  

    1 - Cash on Cash Return is based on only the first year of investment.  There is no comparison after that.

    2 - You are assuming with the stock returns compounding, but you are also basing it on a number that fluctuates over time.

    3 - Here's the biggy, as if the first two weren't big enough.  You are assuming the person getting the cash back on the cash on cash return is doing what with the money?  That person also has the ability to reinvest it and thus compounding the original investment funds.  If they start out with bigger returns, and get bigger returns, and reinvest those returns (just like you are), who do you think will end up with the largest cumulative returns?

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    John McAuley Ummmmm...I’m not sure why in your example the real estate owner takes their cash-flow and hides it under their bed...never to be reinvested. Even if they didn’t want to put it back into real estate, they could take that better ROI and put that into mutual funds. In my opinion, the valid portion of your argument is not allocated value to your time. One 60 minute meeting with a Fidelity rep and you can just dump your money in and you’re done. Real estate, at best, is passive-ish as even managing a property manager takes time. If that time impedes your W2 career development, takes away a sales commission in the “day job”, etc. you can end up with a bad return on your time. Especially when you’re starting out and don’t have a nest egg.
  • The Woodlands, TX · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 31 votes
    9y

    I've always considered cash-on-cash to only mean cash, not value. This way, the calculation is straight forward, i.e. cash flow / invested cash. The invested cash for me includes all cash out of pocket, i.e. down payment, rehab cost, closing cost, etc. Cash flow would be income after rehab, if applicable, less PITI and maintenance/repair/fees.

    For internal return on investment, I consider principal buy down converting to equity. However, am I missing something with cash-on cash? To get 12% and a reasonable cash flow of say around $200/mo, I need to include principal buy down in cash flow (i.e. if no principal is paid, I get the cash instead). Otherwise, cash flow needs to almost double to get to the 12% range.

    Either way, all return on investment, even appreciation, should be used when comparing with market investments. If dividends from a market investment is reinvested in the calculation, so too should any returns on property. The analogy to me is that stock value equates to property equity and dividends equates to cash flow. Stock appreciation is considered in the return when buying the stock, so too should property appreciation.

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