Time to sell two houses and buy apartment building?

Time to sell two houses and buy apartment building?

Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes

First time poster here, please bear with my inexperience. 

I am in my mid-forties and live in the San Gabriel Valley area. Currently, I own two rental houses with no mortgage in Southern California. The first one is in San Gabriel Valley which I paid $265,000 in 2000. It is now worth about $800,000. Currently, I am collecting $2,400 per month in rent.  

The second house is located in the Inland Empire which I bought in 2003 for $240,000.  It is probably now valued at around $330,000.  The monthly rent on this property is $1,600.

So I have about $1.13 million combined in asset generating $4,000 of revenue per month.  Lately, I have been looking at apartment buildings in places like Riverside County and Phoenix metro area.  Apartment buildings priced around $1 million can generate $7,000 -  $9,000 of revenue per month. Now I understand that the properties in places like Phoenix will never have the rate of appreciation compared to an area like the San Gabriel Valley, but I will get much more bang for my buck in terms of income generation.

What would you guys do if you were in my situation?  Should I sell both of the rental properties and invest in an apartment complex?  How about commercial real estate? 

Any ideas to generate more income would be appreciated!

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Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

I've been in your shoes. I started REI in 1982 in NYC and vicinity, a high appreciation area.

I also have a rental that grosses $2,500/month, no mortgage. But taking into consideration taxes, insurance, mowing, it nets $1,500/month, and that doesn't include a PM. I assume the numbers you cited are gross.

If you sell, you're stuck with capital gains. So you're best bet is a 1031 to another property, or refi and take $300 to $400K out for a future down payment. Problem with 1031 is you only have a 6 month time frame, too rushed for me.

Like you, I was tired of SFR's and looked into apartment buildings, and small commercial properties. The only thing that would stop me is the current upward market in RE, around here is 8 years, near it's peak, I believe a correction is coming. So I might refi out, hold the cash, and wait for the correction.

Fortunately, I'm retired now, and I find what you got, a SFR in an A neighborhood easier to manage, so I'm holding on to my mortgage free properties.

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  • Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I've been in your shoes. I started REI in 1982 in NYC and vicinity, a high appreciation area.

    I also have a rental that grosses $2,500/month, no mortgage. But taking into consideration taxes, insurance, mowing, it nets $1,500/month, and that doesn't include a PM. I assume the numbers you cited are gross.

    If you sell, you're stuck with capital gains. So you're best bet is a 1031 to another property, or refi and take $300 to $400K out for a future down payment. Problem with 1031 is you only have a 6 month time frame, too rushed for me.

    Like you, I was tired of SFR's and looked into apartment buildings, and small commercial properties. The only thing that would stop me is the current upward market in RE, around here is 8 years, near it's peak, I believe a correction is coming. So I might refi out, hold the cash, and wait for the correction.

    Fortunately, I'm retired now, and I find what you got, a SFR in an A neighborhood easier to manage, so I'm holding on to my mortgage free properties.

  • Bill ExeterBusiness Member
    1031 Exchange Qualified Intermediary · San Diego, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Hi @Charles Chang and @Frank Chin, 

    You can certainly sell to Relinquished Properties and combine them into one Replacement Property through a 1031 Exchange transaction. This is done all the time, but as Frank pointed out the timing is critical and stressful. You have 45 calendar days from the date that your first Relinquished Property closes to identify the Replacement Property that you intend to acquire and 180 calendar days to close on the acquisition of your Replacement Property. The initial Identification. Is part of the 180 calendar days. These are done all the time, but take careful planning in order to meet your deadlines.

    The other possibility would be to look at a Reverse 1031 Exchange transaction. The Reverse 1031 Exchange transaction allows you to acquire wire and close on the purchase of your Replacement Property before you close on the sale of your Relinquished Property. The challenges are that your equity is currently trapped inside of your Relinquished Properties so you must find other ways of funding the purchase of your Replacement Property since you are closing on it first. Reverse 1031 Exchange transactions complicated and more costly, but take the risk out of doing a 1031 Exchange because you have actually closed on the purchase of your Replacement Property. They get even more complicated when a lender or some type of financing is involved.

    Exeter 1031 Exchange Services, LLC and Exeter Trust Company4.726 Reviews
  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Charles Chang Are you self-managing now? Have you factored in 10% PM costs for out-of-market properties? A few thousand a year for periodic trips to check in on the properties? What do you think the tenant quality will be like in a Phoenix apartment vs. your San Gabriel houses? How will that impact wear and tear? Just a few questions to ask yourself. You might find that the actual recognized gain isn't quite as appealing. All of that said, I own out of state apartments so while this post is definitely hypocritical in one sense, the costs that come with out-of-state deals is real. PM me if you want to chat more about it, happy to help (not that I own anything in Arizona!).
  • Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    Wow! Lots of great insight and information from seasoned investors. Please keep the information coming

    @Frank Chin and Andrew Johnson

    My property tax on the San Gabriel property is $5,500 per year and $4,500 for the second house in the Inland Empire. Currently, I am managing both properties on my own due to having a bad experience with a property manager many years ago, so I will definitely have to take professional management fees into account if I do end up investing outside of California.

    Out of curiosity... What is your tolerance in terms of distance when it comes to real estate investment? I know it would be great if the property is just around the block, but at current prices in Southern California ( LA and OC ); the ROI is just not that attractive when compared to with the cap rate of most SFR investments around 3 percent. That is the reason why I have to expand my horizon a bit for my next move.

  • Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Bill Exeter Thanks for the information on the 1031 exchange. I am just now at the brain storming phase, so I haven't really thought about the tax implications yet.  

  • Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson What are some of the possible unexpected incidents that may result from owning an investment property out of state? It's always better to learn from someone's experience rather than on your own.  Thanks again for your insight!

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Charles Chang Personally, I don't think distance makes much of a difference.  Absentee is absentee.  Not to mention it's probably easier to catch a flight to Phoenix that it would be to drive to San Diego.  The only benefit I could see to Phoenix, Boise, etc. is that you could conceivably to a day-trip flight and save yourself on having to book a hotel.  Time it right and your property manager might even be able to pick you up from the airport and save you some part of your Uber costs.  I'm just spit-balling but there are some conceivable benefits to being marginally close.  That said, I don't think I'd let that sway me on the right vs. wrong deal.  

    I'd be looking for an area where you have a friend you trust, family, lived before, etc.  In essence, someone locally with no vested interest in making a sale who can give you an unbiased opinion on the wrong vs. right side of the tracks.  Plus, when you take inevitable trips to check in on the properties you can at least have dinner with someone instead of eating by yourself at whatever places are within walking distances of the Hyatt.  

  • Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    How do you guys feel about mobile home parks? I have been reading up on them quite a bit. It seems that the general consensus out there is that this is the type of investment that has the least amount of hassle involved on a day to day basis.

  • Nabil SuleimanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 596 posts · 299 votes
    9y

    @charles 

    @Charles Chang Hi Charles, If you have time Wednesday night there is a meet up in your neighborhood  called LAREI. You should check it out and meet some like minded people. Share your needs and you will get a lot of great conversations and feedback. 

  • Professional · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 876 posts · 301 votes
    9y

    Hi @Charles Chang, if you're an accredited investor there is an investment product called a DST (Delaware Statutory Trust) that might be beneficial for you to learn about if you decide to perform a 1031 exchange. From my experience (and many of my clients) DSTs have helped eliminate the day-to-day hassles of property management, allowing for more free time to do the things that are more important. All the details of rent collection, leasing, maintenance, repairs and bookkeeping are handled by national class, professional property managers. The DST real estate providers (sponsors), who possess the special expertise in managing commercial real estate, perform the functions of overall asset manager and investor relations management. DSTs offer potential cash flow, tax shelter and appreciation. Loans are non-recourse.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Stepping out of the management would be a key aspect of your proposal. Right now you are self managing two tenants for your cash flow. For twice that cash flow are you looking to manage 10 tenants long distance ? or none?
  • Investor · Zürich, Zürich · Member since 2016 · 292 posts · 115 votes
    9y

     @Leslie Pappas I'd presume that the "exit" strategy for such a DST 1031-rollover would be death? Or put otherwise: how could one get out of it without selling the beneficial interest and in turn becoming subject to (capital gains) taxation? Granted, I have not at all looked into the tax treatment of such a strategy after having put the money into the DST, but at first glance I see this to be the final move if and when one gets (older and/or) to a point where one no longer wants to deal with being a landlord as an individual but rather a purely passive investor. All this in the context of legally avoiding capital gains taxation (and inherent recaptured depreciation).

  • Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Charles Chang:

    First time poster here, please bear with my inexperience. 

    I am in my mid-forties and live in the San Gabriel Valley area. Currently, I own two rental houses with no mortgage in Southern California. The first one is in San Gabriel Valley which I paid $265,000 in 2000. It is now worth about $800,000. Currently, I am collecting $2,400 per month in rent.  

    The second house is located in the Inland Empire which I bought in 2003 for $240,000.  It is probably now valued at around $330,000.  The monthly rent on this property is $1,600.

    So I have about $1.13 million combined in asset generating $4,000 of revenue per month.  Lately, I have been looking at apartment buildings in places like Riverside County and Phoenix metro area.  Apartment buildings priced around $1 million can generate $7,000 -  $9,000 of revenue per month. Now I understand that the properties in places like Phoenix will never have the rate of appreciation compared to an area like the San Gabriel Valley, but I will get much more bang for my buck in terms of income generation.

    What would you guys do if you were in my situation?  Should I sell both of the rental properties and invest in an apartment complex?  How about commercial real estate? 

    Any ideas to generate more income would be appreciated!

     Send me a message I might know the best 1031 replacement.

  • Investor · San Gabriel, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Colleen F.:
    Stepping out of the management would be a key aspect of your proposal. Right now you are self managing two tenants for your cash flow. For twice that cash flow are you looking to manage 10 tenants long distance ? or none?

     I understand that I will definitely have to hire someone to manage the property if it is 350 miles away. How do you go about finding a property manager you can trust? 

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Charles Chang This is the real life monopoly my friend.  Go for it!!!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Charles Chang Love your ambition and drive to continue scaling up!

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    I'll second LAREIA as a good place to go. I'd also consider attending mobilehomeuniversity.com if I were you. I've been to both... several times.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Actually my point was more about is it worth it to even have a PM manage 10 tenants for what you will get, that is what you need to decide. 

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