SHORT SALE FLIPS & REALTORS -need input!

SHORT SALE FLIPS & REALTORS -need input!

Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2009 · 197 posts · 32 votes

I have an agent with whom I've had a long term (past) working relationship for several years. 99% of her business is (no surprise in this market) short sales as a seller's rep. I, of course, am wanting to find a way to profit from those deals by doing flips while giving her the ability to increase her commissions by listing and then reselling the properties.

After my brief pitch, she was quick to explain that she is a very hands-on 'relationship person' with her sellers from start to finish and does all the negotiating with the lenders directly. She had never heard of short sale flips, transactional funding, or end buyers. When I explained how it works she was quick to say the following:

- "I don't see how the banks would let you profit, for one, plus they aren't willing to take less than the BPO in my experience."

- "I would never list the seller's property for more than the market value and, in fact, I always start listings at below market to move it as quick as possible to get as many offers."

I told her many investors start a bit above at first to try and create enough of a spread for selling to an end buyer. If no bites, then the price is lowered every week or so until there's an offer. She couldn't understand why and said "that's completely backwards".

Speaking of which, since I'm new to flipping, and haven't yet closed a deal, what do you investors tell your agent to list at? I'm assuming a bit over market to weed out the possible bites that might give you a bigger spread you'd otherwise miss out on had you started with a below-market listing? In other words, do you recommend starting the listing above-market and then dropping it at certain intervals?

She then stated that she felt an above-market listing would be a disservice to her seller, namely because it puts the seller at an increased risk of foreclosure, taking longer to move and increasing the likelihood of going further into default.

She was adamant about wanting to maintain strict control of the short sale process even though I explained she could be making much more by leveraging her efforts and handing the short sale negotiations to me, thus freeing up her time to take on more listings.

She again explained she works very diligently to build a hands-on relationship with desparate sellers, so it's a shoe-in for her once she gains their trust.

She also felt that most agents interested in doing these deals would want a piece of my spread. I said that's not legal as far as I know. All an agent's entitled to is a commission on the front (seller) and back end (end buyer - if they find one). I would think it's violation and a direct conflict of interest for them to get a part of the profit from the deal. Can anyone clarify this?

I just need to come up with some intelligent responses to these concerns.

Suggestions?

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Real Estate Consultant · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 20 votes
16y

From what I know they are one in the same. You can use transactional funding to close the A-B portion of wholesale (back to back closings, double escrows, and/or assigns) deals.

Its actually better for her to be the contact with the bank and seller especially if she is experienced in doing so. Let her earn her commission and do the heavy lifting, you just be the buyer and have her submit your low ball offer to the bank and negotiate from there. The only time you have to worry is if and when the listing gets a higher offer besides yours. When the bank does approve a price and if there is still enough profit room, have her immediately remove the listing from the MLS and/or relist it at your selling price. Meanwhile you find your End-buyer for the B to C portion of the deal and offer her another 2-4% commission for helping you resell it. The trick to these deals is getting your offer accepted by the bank low enough to leave room for a propfit after your closing costs ie escrow, title, and commissions if going through a Realtor. If there is little to no room for profit after the short sale price is approved you don't have a good deal.

Hope this helps!

Give me a call or email me! My business partner and good friend is out in Vegas! Maybe you guys can get in touch and put some deals together. We used to work in the same real estate office, well we still do except he moved out there and visits back here every month or so and I am still at the office.
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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    You sound like you're talking about wholesaling, since you talk about transactional funding. But they you talk about listing your properties. Are you really talking about buying a short sale through her, relisting it at a higher price and trying to find a buyer that way? Meanwhile taking a cut out of the middle?

    What is it you're offering to a buyer that they don't get with just the original listing? Why couldn't they just buy it directly from the bank/seller through this agent? I really don't get what value you're adding here.

    A wholesaler finds great deals, takes a cut and sells to investors. They find their deals. They negotiate with the bank if they're short sales. They offer them to their buyer's list. This sounds like you're taking a sale she's negotiating with the bank, sticking it on the MLS and waiting for a buyer to come along.

    Conventional buyers can't buy these deals. All that transactional funding and quick flipping is going to make most conventional lenders back out. That's why you need a cash buyer or someone with funding, like hard money, that doesn't care about the monkey business.

    I'm 100% with the agent here. Price it right from the start and generate a buyer quickly. When you put a new listing on the market, you have a whole group of buyers who have a chance to see the listing. That's your single biggest opportunity. They look, don't like the price, and scratch your property off their lists. Lowering the price later doesn't help because they never take a second look.

    I wonder if you're confusing fix and flipping (aka rehabbing) with wholesaling (aka flipping.) Buying a junky house through an agent, fixing it up, then relisting it as a retail sale makes a lot of sense for you (the rehabber) and the agent. The agent gets two sets of commissions and you get a much larger profit.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 20 votes
    16y

    Tim, this is right up my alley. I am an agent turned investor and have negotiated and closed my share of short sales. I can tell you most agents are not familiar with wholeselling and are afraid of the concept.

    The best advice is to...
    1. find motivated sellers yourself and not deal with an agent if possible. this will save you lots of money on your profit spread
    2. find an agent who either knows about wholeselling or is open to doing them and learning. (if one has to learn it may take a learning curve to get things done)
    3. you can outsource it to a company that handles short sale wholesale deals for investors (there are some on BP forums but they do charge )
    4. contact the listing agents of short sales and approach them with the proposition. They could quadruple-end the deal by selling to you then you become the seller and they earn another commission.

    I do agree with the agent on one issue. I always try to get the bank to approve my short sales at the lowest possible price no matter what to create as much of a spread as possible. The only down side is the listing could and often does attract a lot of attention and offers and the agent could get in trouble for not submitting every offer to the bank. The catch-22 in that is submitting more than 1 offer can end your progress and send your negotiations back to square one. I advise all my fellow agents to submit the first or lowest offer (which ever comes first) to the bank and try to move along with that offer as far as they can.

    I am licensed in CA and can do agent work for you if you have a deal out here. Maybe we can work together!

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2009 · 197 posts · 32 votes
    16y

    I'm talking about short sale flips using transactional funding. Wholesaling is similar, but involves no cash.

    What I meant for the agent was to refer me her seller, let me do the negotiations with the bank, she provides the BPO, meanwhile, she gets her commmish on the listing, and while the lender is processing the short sale, she can find me a cash buyer and can pocket another commission.

    The price the end buyer gets will likely be slightly below market when it's all said and done.

    The truth is that I'm putting a couple deals through (as a birddogger) a firm I partnered up with that does all the negotiations, paperwork, funding, etc. I am still green and wanting to learn how it works myself.

    I will have more confidence once these deals hopefully close.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2009 · 197 posts · 32 votes
    16y

    Marcus, thanks for the response. You know exactly what time it is!

    We are ground zero here in Vegas for short sales, REOs, trustee sales, you name it. I and my associates need to find more "real people" out there to mentor/partner with to learn this business other than all the hype, gurus, etc. on the net that is a jungle of confusion inundating me daily!

    I will take your offer into consideration!

    Thanks again.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 20 votes
    16y

    From what I know they are one in the same. You can use transactional funding to close the A-B portion of wholesale (back to back closings, double escrows, and/or assigns) deals.

    Its actually better for her to be the contact with the bank and seller especially if she is experienced in doing so. Let her earn her commission and do the heavy lifting, you just be the buyer and have her submit your low ball offer to the bank and negotiate from there. The only time you have to worry is if and when the listing gets a higher offer besides yours. When the bank does approve a price and if there is still enough profit room, have her immediately remove the listing from the MLS and/or relist it at your selling price. Meanwhile you find your End-buyer for the B to C portion of the deal and offer her another 2-4% commission for helping you resell it. The trick to these deals is getting your offer accepted by the bank low enough to leave room for a propfit after your closing costs ie escrow, title, and commissions if going through a Realtor. If there is little to no room for profit after the short sale price is approved you don't have a good deal.

    Hope this helps!

    Give me a call or email me! My business partner and good friend is out in Vegas! Maybe you guys can get in touch and put some deals together. We used to work in the same real estate office, well we still do except he moved out there and visits back here every month or so and I am still at the office.
  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2009 · 197 posts · 32 votes
    16y

    Again, Marcus, many thanks! Terrific advice.

    Is your no. listed somewhere on this site?

  • Real Estate Consultant · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 20 votes
    16y

    Its on my profile or you can email me at the email address below in my info at the bottom of this post.

  • Real Estate Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2008 · 443 posts · 91 votes
    16y

    Your correct but you need to be in control, you cant work with an agent like that. You need to train someone that is on your team or yourself needs to be the agent so it gets done your way. Agents minds don’t wrap around what you do as an investor in most cases.

    Brian Haskins

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2009 · 197 posts · 32 votes
    16y

    Come to think of it, I think you're correct, Brian. Since she does all the negotiating with the lender directly and, all due respect, has a "retail" mentality, I don't think a flip deal could realistically get done. Her allegiance is first to the seller and then to the bank, not an ideal situation of what we need as investors.

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