What's better...9%ROI w/ 24%CCR or... 7%ROI w/ 50%CCR

What's better...9%ROI w/ 24%CCR or... 7%ROI w/ 50%CCR

Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes

Hey BP -

If I invest money into the rental units I have my ROI will increase to 9% and my cash on cash return will decrease to 24%. If I leave the rental units "as-is", I will get a 7% ROI with 50% cash on cash return.

What is better? Do I leave it alone or do I put money into the property? 

0Reply
63 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
10y

@Kathleen Rothenberg Unfortunately your statement is too broad to respond to. It would all depend on the location, type of market, type of building and your hold strategy. I can only say if in your market you can attract a better type of tenant with a fixed property then with an "as is" one, it might be worth your sanity to do it. One nasty eviction and your numbers are not going to look as pretty. (Depending on location here in Chicago it's up to 4 months) 

On the other hand, if your tenants are going to destroy anything nice you put into the place, stick to "as is". I have heard horror stories from the South Side where tenants walked out with kitchens and toilets.

If you have multis are they selling fixed? How long does it take for them to sell? What are your market trends? I would check Marcus & Millichap for real estate outlook. I stumbled onto them by accident and thought they were good.

Single families are easier but no one has a crystal ball. I'm fairly new at this by the way, but thought I'd give my 2 cents. 


See this reply in the discussion

15 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Kathleen Rothenberg Unfortunately your statement is too broad to respond to. It would all depend on the location, type of market, type of building and your hold strategy. I can only say if in your market you can attract a better type of tenant with a fixed property then with an "as is" one, it might be worth your sanity to do it. One nasty eviction and your numbers are not going to look as pretty. (Depending on location here in Chicago it's up to 4 months) 

    On the other hand, if your tenants are going to destroy anything nice you put into the place, stick to "as is". I have heard horror stories from the South Side where tenants walked out with kitchens and toilets.

    If you have multis are they selling fixed? How long does it take for them to sell? What are your market trends? I would check Marcus & Millichap for real estate outlook. I stumbled onto them by accident and thought they were good.

    Single families are easier but no one has a crystal ball. I'm fairly new at this by the way, but thought I'd give my 2 cents. 


  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Give us real numbers, different people mean different things by ROI.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Ultimately your entire return cannot be calculated until you sell the property. The best metrics Internal Rate of Return (IRR) but that takes into account future increases which is at best an educated guess.

    To Wayne's point "cash on cash" is the cash return on the cash invested. Isn't that ROI?

  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks  

    I hope I'm crunching numbers correctly... 

    Purchase price $350,000

    Equity In $12,250

    $337,750 @3.25% 30yr 

    Gross Income $40,800 

    Operating Expenses $11,750 

    If I put $40k into the building my numbers are 

    Equity In $52,250

    Gross Income $49,200

    Operating Expenses $11,750

    I also figure a 10% vacancy loss and 2.5% replacement reserves into my numbers. 

    The area has signs of improving. It is in a great location. The current tenants are very clean and take care of their units. 

  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Ned Carey

    I calculate 

    CCR = cash return/cash invested

    ROI= Net operating income/purchase price

    NOI = Gross income-operating expenses

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    We don't know what number you're using as your NOI. This looks like an FHA owner occupied, with the 3.5% down payment. You will having closing costs and prepaids of about 5-6%. I assume you realize you'll also have upfront (1.75%) along with monthly MIP(.85% of loan/12 months). Not sure if you have repairs in there, and $1000/year for capex looks low.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    If you don't NEED to put another $40k into the same investment, how about just putting it into ANOTHER one? I think you'll find that the long term numbers will favor: another one! Cheers...

  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    Thanks. 

    @Brent Coomb

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 446 posts · 197 votes
    10y
    I agree with Brent Coombs
  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Brent Coombs I agree. I was going to use 0% interest credit cards to do the repairs but I will instead save the money and live in one of the units while I save up down payment for another investment. 

  • Investor · Cocoa Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 132 posts · 59 votes
    10y
    My two cents is that bulletproofing rentals is a good long term investment. If the bathrooms need new toilets, vanities, tubs, etc. then it's much easier to do this up front, or if/when they are vacant. If the repairs/upgrades are needed CapEx and necessary replacements, I'd do what I could. If they don't "need" the investment, but you can delay it and reap the reward later (like before a sale) or it's purely cosmetic and because you want granite or nicer stuff, I just remind myself that it is not for me to live in, so it just needs to be safe and relatively clean. If you do it on 0% interest CCs, how would you pay it off in a year? Put all the cash flow into paying them off? I'd rather have cash saved for replacement and operating reserves first than to put everything on credit. Again, it comes down to needs vs wants. Do these units need investments? If yes, get them done efficiently. If no, make sure they are as bullet proof as possible with what you've got and save and re-invest.
  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Luke Grogan Thanks for the input. You're right...the units don't need anything and the current tenants pay on time and keep their units very clean. So, don't touch what's not broken and just keep my replacement reserves account building up for when I do need to make a repair/improvement. 

  • Asset Manager · Miami , FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks The numbers are tight and I wasn't sure if I wanted to share them with everyone. But it's a learning experience and for my current situation it helps me get one step closer to my financial goals.

    Here is my 2-year plan and numbers: 

    Currently, I am in debt: I have 0% interest on my current credit cards and have 18 and 21 months (two different cards) to pay it off before the interest is jacked up. That is going to cost me $700/mo (after 18/mo I pay $300/mo) to get this all paid off. 

    When I move into one of the units, I will be paying half what I normally pay in rent, saving me $900. That money is going to pay off my debt. The extra income, the building brings in will be set aside for repairs, vacancy loss, and savings to buy another building.  I have two years to go before I have no car payment and no credit card debt. 

    Once I move out of the unit, I will rent it at market value, hopefully, it will be higher rent at that point. If I feel the market has increased at any point, I will have an appraisal done and hopefully, remove the PMI.

    The owner is paying for closing cost and pre-paid fees/expenses. 

    I don't know what the trash or water bill will be...I am guessing on those numbers. 

    Purchase Price $350,000.00
    down payment 12,250.00
    Loan Amount 337,750.00
    Loan Payments/ Yr @ 3.25% 30yr $17,833.20
    loan payments/monthly 1,486.10
    Water, Sewer, Gas 1920
    Lawn Maintance 300
    Trash 360
    Insurance 3600
    PMI 2844
    Taxes 3,852.00
    Operating Expense (OE) $12,876.00
    OE per month $1,073.00
    Rent Roll
    Apt 1 800
    Apt 2 800
    Apt 3 750
    Apt 4 850
    GPI per month $3,200.00
    (GPI) Gross Potential Income $38,400.00
    Vacancy Loss 10% 3,840.00
    Effective Gross Income $34,560.00
    other income W&D $600.00
    GOI $35,160.00
    (NOI) Net operating income $25,524.00
    NOI monthly $2,127.00
    RRA 10% (replacement reserves account) $2,552.40
    BTCF (Before Tax Cash Flow) $5,138.40
    BTCF monthly $428.20
    CAP RATE 7.3%
    Cash on Cash Return (%) 41.9%
    DCR (Debt Coverage Ratio) 1.43


  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    @Kathleen R. I see 10% for capex, but nothing for ongoing/turnover repairs and make rent ready costs. With washers and dryers that number will increase a bit. And just a note, on FHA you can't ever remove the MIP, it's for the life of the loan. I didn't see closing costs (5-6% including prepaids), or mention the seller was paying for them.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks, Owner/Seller paying the closing was mentioned.

    @Kathleen R., usmortgagecalculator.org comes up with $289.90/m PMI, = $3480/y.

    On the same site, Property Taxes = $364.58/m, = $4375/y. I don't know how generic those numbers are, but, can you afford to be less conservative than necessary? Check others too?...

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.