2% method flaws and observations

2% method flaws and observations

Pleasanton, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 3 votes

As a new user to BP but someone who has done well with the three properties I’ve owned, I was taking a look through the forums seeing what screening tools others were using and thought it was interesting how much of an emphasis the 2% rule & 50% rule played out as a starting point for many. I wanted to voice my hesitations using these methods across the forum and see what others think about this.

Timeframe – It seems like many of the threads that use this guide line started 5-8 years ago… when interest rates were 5-8% and not the 3.5-4.5% that they have been hovering around the last couple years. Take a simple example

$250k home with 20%down @ 3.5% = $898/month of P&I (now)

$250k home with 20%down @ 6% = $1200/month of P&I (5-8 yrs ago)

Clearly there is a big difference of $300/month or $3600/yr… or to state it a different way the interest rate alone accounts for a 1.4% expense difference ($3600/250k). What I’m attempting to show is that someone utilizing the 2% rule 5-8 years ago they could now get the same return utilizing a new .6% rule (2% - 1.4%) assuming all other factors were the identical. Obviously you could argue that a little more that would come back to you via taxes (~1-1.2k in most tax situations) but for sake of explanation I’m just trying to show that it shouldn’t be a fixed 2% that you plug into your calculations…

Another reason I look at the 2% rule and chuckle a little is that while it may work in certain locations where the cost of ownership is low and maintenance is a much bigger percentage of the yearly picture it doesn't hold up well under many areas. Seeing as though I live in the SF bay area I quickly realized there's no way that anything close to 2% would ever happen in high cost of living areas… If I followed that rule here in the San Francisco bay area an average $900k SFR property would be need a whopping $18k/month in order to meet the 2% rule (900k*.02)… clearly there's no way you could expect to find a property that'll net you $216k/year at a 900k price point. But please let me know if you do; I'll buy it in a heartbeat! The 2% rule seems to be intended to protect against long term expenses (carpet, painting, roof, etc) but if the cost of the home is so much larger than the upkeep expenses it should instead get back to a cost per square foot to maintain-- Example 2000sq ft * $3/yr = $6k/yr for maintenance seems much more reasonable then needing to go achieve the $18k/month route to suggest cashflow. This leads me to my first question--

What do others plug into their cost per square foot to maintain different types of properties (condo/townhome/SFR, etc). Obviously this will vary a little based off of the area but should be much less variation then using the 2% rule to estimate.

-Joel

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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
10y

Use 75% rule in CA, not 50%.

No one else has Prop 13. 50% rule implicitly assumes that prop taxes will go up with rent. In CA, they do not. So, [ rent * 75% - PITI ] is what should be used as the quick screening algorithm.

@Joel Benscoter - Most people in our area already use 1%, not 2%. We're in an appreciation market, not a cash flow market. You can trade cap rate for appreciation, and vice versa. The 1% rule is a "poor man's" cap rate because you can do it in your head, but even it isn't an end all be all. 

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  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes
    10y

    2% rule is meant as a rule of thumb to pre screen opportunities. Not to completely analyze property. 

    I agree that looking at more detailed analysis is important, but the 2% rule principle can be useful when looking at hundreds of deals and screening out the few bad ones before digging in. 

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    Use 75% rule in CA, not 50%.

    No one else has Prop 13. 50% rule implicitly assumes that prop taxes will go up with rent. In CA, they do not. So, [ rent * 75% - PITI ] is what should be used as the quick screening algorithm.

    @Joel Benscoter - Most people in our area already use 1%, not 2%. We're in an appreciation market, not a cash flow market. You can trade cap rate for appreciation, and vice versa. The 1% rule is a "poor man's" cap rate because you can do it in your head, but even it isn't an end all be all. 

  • Investor · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    I think that the 2% rule is more for a $65k duplex in a place like Cleveland where each of the two units rents for $650.  

    As you stated it is the same holds for the 50% rule.  A new furnace is going to be more or less the same price if the house is 70k or 700k.  You burn a larger percentage of the rental income on maintenance and capex.

  • Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area · Member since 2015 · 154 posts · 179 votes
    10y
    Hi @Joel Benscoter:

    Good observation. I totally agree that the x% rules are only valid in a particular time place and for a particular type of property and also for a particular type of investment goal. I have also always felt about it that an x% rule can not be used the compare low end properties with high end properties. Your roof (or water heater if you will:)) will cost the same, so that $20,000.00 property with a $600 rent all of a sudden looks like a pretty crappy deal compared to a 200,000.00 property with a $4500 rent even though the percentages is way higher. My point is, you can not compare apples to oranges. It also excludes other investment goals like appreciation that some people might have.

    Looking purely at cash flow though, I think the x % rule it is a great way to compare apples to apples. My apples happen to be conforming small multi family in north Stockton build in the late seventies or early eighties. 2 to 3 bedrooms. And what I found from experience is that since these properties are so much alike the 1% rule is a very effective way to take a quick stab at evaluating if they will fit my cash flow goals. 

    Again, I can only do this because all these properties are so incredibly similar, but it is really helpful for me to quickly evaluate "opportunities". If I would like to compare them to Victorians, or non-conforming, or large multi family or downtown properties I would have to go into a lot more detail to make even the most superficial of comparisons.

    Speaking of the 1% rule, for my particular "asset class" that rule is effectively out of the window in my particular "market":( see link below.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/627/topics/313245-where-have-all-the-flowers-gone-analyzing-some-stockton-deals?page=1#p2026993

     Where are your properties located and what sort of returns are you seeing?

    PS: You mentioned some rates: I am pretty sure current rate for investment properties is at least 4.5%. I signed docs for 3 properties this week and the only reason I was able to get a 4.25% rate was because I bought a quarter point (at about 0.75 points I think).

  • Pleasanton, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    I bought a new townhouse in NE San Jose for $525k in 2009 (in 2011 they announce a new Bart station 1/8th of a mile away in Milpitas and then a $760k townhouse in Sunnyvale 1/8th of a mile from caltrain station in 2013. Sold both last year for $756k and $968k respectively. Both were primary homes initially but the first one I rented out after I got married and was cashflow positive about $900/month in addition to the principal appreciation equivalent to a 54% IRR over those 5 years I owned the first property. I probably should have kept one of the properties but I didn't want to be too heavily tied to Bay Area real estate. The properties are now worth 850k and 1.05m a little over a year after I sold them...

    I purchased the single family home last year a after looking at school districts and realizing that with 1 kid and one on the way I needed to shift. Now I rent out the SFH on AirBNB 14 days a year to pay for 10% of the years mortgage & tax payments.

    I just talked to a lender about rentals and was quoted a 4.25% with 25% down but in the example above I was just putting in some round numbers that were ball parked.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    1% rule is working out pretty well for me in the Riverwards neighborhoods of Philadelphia.

    The 50% rule is better for quick screening listings. Properties that don't quite meet it can still work with the right renovations and rent increases.

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Joel Benscoter Forget about the metrics like 2%, 1%, 50% rules. They do not apply to $500K + homes with $3000+ rents in a market with effectively zero vacancy. 

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