Architect situation... Is price right?

Question

I have been developing a commercial property in Columbus Ohio and assigned an architectural firm to assist. They have been engaged in my project in 2 phases, first was to draw preliminary sketches and engage with the township to get zoning/regulatory aspects in line with my needs. they have done that for just under 10k and the work was lengthy (took over 6 months and was jam packed with meetings/hearings). I was very happy with the job there.

Now that I am in the second phase which is primarily design based and much less running around city/township zoning matters, I have a feeling that Im being overcharged. The architectural firm sent me a proposal for 27k which involves the following:

Schematic Design (25%) Step 3 Total: $ 6,978

Design Development (25%) Step 4 Total: $ 6,978

Construction Documents (50%) Step 5 Total: $ 13,956

I am almost done with the Schematic Design step and feel like the architect has spent no more than 14 hours to achieve the drawing/plans for that step.

Does anyone here have any inclination if that sounds right? Am I being overcharged?

Jared W Smith · Answer

I am going to echo what @Matt Devincenzo alluded to. @Daniel Bryant

If you are not an Architect or in the industry, it's likely there was more time and energy spent to achieve the schematic design they came to. Additionally the Architect is building upon what was gathered in the prior phase from the township. I think this pricing is fair and on par with what I would expect. You should also remember, you aren't just paying for their time but also their expertise and experience. Without either of those they may take a lot longer (but this would be a bad thing) and could give you a design which is not well thought out, efficient or within compliance with the local Codes. @Carini Rochester alludes to this also. Knowing WHERE to look and WHAT to look for when designing is part of being a great Architect.

Those two schematic drawings could have took 20 iteration to achieve. Looking at Zoning & Codes for: setbacks, easements, egress, accessibility, max height, max density, max open space, parking, site access, traffic access, utility location, environmental impacts, green building strategies, site orientation, optimal MEP systems locations... I could go on. All of this goes through most Architect's heads in schematic design.

It's like if you went to 3 car mechanics who each charged you $50 and spent an hour working but none could fix your problem. But then to you found a knowledgeable mechanic who charged you $200 but solved the problem in 10 mins, would you be mad about what you spent? He had the expertise to know what to do. (Not a perfect example but I think it hits the point.)

Architects typically charge based on the project location, size and complexity. Most projects are not the same (unless duplicate construction like a subdivision/cookie cutter houses). If you were accepting of the contract scope of work and fee before starting, then it looks like the Architect is performing well and meeting their end of the bargain.

Jared W. Smith, RA - Principal Architect at Architect Owl PLLC

Carini Rochester · Answer

If you have an architect that is performing for you (you say he is) then I would just stick with him. You might get a couple bids for you next project and see what the competition is like. Architectural plans for a commercial building is difficult work. The code is complex and a lot of information has to be communicated. Conversion of a building built for one use, then converted to another use is complex. A layman might look at it and kind of know what has to be done. But an architect has thousands of pages of building code to think about and figure out what applies and what doesn't and how the code should be interpreted, and how the code enforcement official who will be looking over the plan will interpret it. It's complex.

Re. He billed a lot for the simple Schematic Work. Well, every business-person ought to know to try to bill as much early on in a project as the customer will let you get away with. Next time try to talk him into lower early payments and higher later payments.

Matt Devincenzo · Answer

Is your proposal a fixed fee, or a time and material billable? Or said another way, if implementing what took 14 hours in SD takes 130 hours in CD would you expect to pay them more for that?

Without knowing the scope of your actual project it is difficult to comment on the fee. If they are a fixed fee then maybe they anticipated a lot more effort to get the SD portion done than it ended up taking. The question then is were you happy with the cost before you knew how much time they spent?

Matthew Drouin · Answer

@Daniel Bryant

@Jared W Smith hit the nail on the head.  You are thinking about this the wrong way.  I’ve been there before “how much are they sweating to earn this?”

I have an architect who does the same for me.  Their early predevelopment work is a loss leader for them because they know the project might not get approved and don’t want you to hesitate engaging with them when you are “rolling the dice”

Also, in regard to the auto mechanic analogy, you are paying for their results regardless of how much they are working on it.

Leveraging someone else’s experience is the greatest most powerful form of leverage in real estate or any other business for that matter.

The only part of the scope you might be able to negotiate is on the construction documents and MEPs.  You could do a design build project with your sub contractors but I’ve often times shot myself in the foot and dealt with many design fails when doing it this way, especially on HVAC!

Daniel Bryant · Answer

Thank you all for reflecting on this and having a great insight! Definitely helped me understand more about the project involved and responsibilities

Architect situation... Is price right?

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