Anyone buying duplex lots as buy and hold strategy?

Anyone buying duplex lots as buy and hold strategy?

Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Had the opportunity to pickup some duplex lots. Just agreed to terms with the bank last week. Was wondering if anybody sees this as a potential strategy for buy and hold investors.

Here's my thought process. Let me know what you think.

1) The lots were going for mid 50's at one time - maybe more in the peak.
2) Villages by me do not have a ton of duplex/4plex lots available.
3) I was able to pick them up for 22.5k per lot (4 lots) and did
it with 15% down as the bank also gave me the loan.

This was kind of unique situation since I am familiar with the bank
and wanted to keep my reserves up. I offered to put down 15% now
and another 15% in a year and they accepted.

Here is my intended strategy for these lots.
As pricing on homes continues going up, the all in returns on SFH rentals will go down. In the past 2 years, I've been getting about $400 to 500 per month profit (before vacancy and repairs) per deal. Thats with little to no money down (0 to 5k tops).

I'm seeing the numbers creeping down to the 350 to 400 mark which is still good but those deals are getting few and far between. My thoughts are that in a couple of years it will be back to roughly 200 to 250 per month range (again thats based on no money down.

So my thoughts are that in 2 to 3 years, I will build duplexes on these lots. And, while I will end up having to put up about 30k a side to do it, I should be in the 500 to 600 a month profit range with these.

And if I can get some appreciation on the lots, I'm hoping I can use some of the equity in the lot to get in a little cheaper.

My brother in law thinks he can build the duplex lots for about $50/sq ft. Which means I figured about $60 a sq ft. I am going to go with 2 story duplexes (3bdrm/2bath/1,400 sq ft) to help keep the cost of foundations and roofs down.

In a perfect world, my scenario would look like this:

1) Lots would be paid down to about 45-50k so I'd owe about 12k per lot. And I'm hoping that the lots would jump up to about 35k to 38k or so (I think they'd actually appraise out at about 28 to 30k today based on the area).
That should give me 15k in equity on the lot (70% of 36k minus = 27k minus the 12k I'd still owe) to put towards the down payment.

2) My estimate on the duplex would be 85k per side (building only - not including the lot) or roughly $60/sq ft. Again, my brother in law (small time builder) quoted me $50 but I figured I'd add the 20% just in case.

That would mean 170k for construction costs.

3) My loan would require 30% down or 54k minus the 15k in lot equity so about 40k.

I would then build the first duplex. After I was done, I would owe 12k on the lot and 130k on the duplex = 140k total. Payments, assuming 5% loan, amortized over 30 of about $700 to 750 per month. Taxes and insurance would be another $400 a month for both (taxes run about 1,800 for each side of roughly the same size and age out there now).

4) End result. I'd be paying roughly 1100 to 1,200 a month in PITI and my rents would be total 2400 to 2,500 for both sides of the duplex.

Again, my return won't be anywhere near what I'm seeing today on my deals where I'm putting down 0 to 5k and the houses are generating $400 a month or more.

But I'm thinking this still gives me a way to chunk in a total of 8 new doors at a really nice number (500 to 600 a month) to help me continue to grow my portfolio. And it should give me a real good addition to have brand new construction units that won't need much repair for the next few years as well.

Any major holes to this strategy? I really think new construction was going to move and felt like tying up these lots today at prices that are 70% off what they once were just made sense. I'm guessing that once construction starts picking up, these banks are going to be a lot less likely to give away any lots.

And the fact that I was able to do this with 15% down was even better.
I know I'm putting another 15% down in a year but, by then, my rental income from my current properties will easily have been able to replenish my reserves so it won't even be an issue.

Had I gone to get loan myself, I don't think a bank would have let me close on a loan with 15% down. The only reason I was able to pull this off is that the bank already knew me because of my two other loans. And, I believe, the fact that these lots were just sitting on their books earning them nothing.

One other note. I actually offered 80k on these lots but the bank wouldn't budge off the 90k number. They insisted that was as low as they could go given what the lots used to be worth. Since they wouldn't give on the price, I was able to get them to bump out their amort period from 15 to 18 years. Those 3 extra years saved me about $50 a month in payments.....

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  • Miami, FL · Member since 2012 · 612 posts · 189 votes
    13y

    You said earlier to make $500 - $600 per month you would build at $30k per unit, but then later on you factored $65k and then later on in the post you said $85k per unit. So, I am really confused on what numbers you are really focusing on.

    Honestly, building duplexes is not going to give you a high return, nor will you see it on the resale. You would be better off building SFR for rentals. If you are looking for portfolio stability then this may be an option but I doubt this will be a profitable venture.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    If higher density (higher than SFR) is in demand, this can work. In urban, growing areas duplexes are in demand by owner occupants as well as investors.

    In Austin, you can buy a nice lot for $150k and build a home for $150k and sell for $375k. Or you can build a duplex for $240k on that same lot and sell for $510k. $75k profit from SFR or $120k profit for duplex.

    The SFR would rent for $2000 and the duplex would rent for $3200. I'd sell rather than rent at those yields.

  • San Diego, CA · Member since 2008 · 301 posts · 108 votes
    13y

    Mike,

    I like the deal. I think it has potential. But couple of holes in your analysis.

    One obvious one is that the assumption that the rate will be 5% over the course of next two years is questionable. It can only go up.

    Two, if you will be getting a construction loan to build the duplexes, there is carrying cost that you have not calculated into your numbers. If this is the case then your cost per duplex is more than $140K. Your final PITI numbers may be the same and still look good. But the ROI will go down.

    I do not understand why your rents are inching down. This must be because the homes are more affordable because of low interest rates and it is cheaper to buy then rent.

  • West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    I didn't read all of the thread.

    I went back and forth with this 2 years ago. Lots were going 50k before could pick one now for 20k with some heavy negotiations.

    I had plans for a barrier free units and met with 2 builders. The numbers wouldn't work. Although I could rent barrier free by the day, there just wouldn't be much cash flow.

    At that time could have had it built for 210k. I can buy 2 other duplexes for that price and that's what I learned during that process.

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    re: Simon Campbell.
    Sorry about that. It was a bit a ramble. Just trying to get some of the thought process down. Wanted to see if I was seeing.

    Here's a recap:
    1) Bought lots for 22.5k each.
    2) Building costs for Duplexes (i.e. both sides) should come to about 170k
    3) Down payment needed to build would be 54k (170k x 30%).
    4) I'm hoping to have equity from lots to use so that my actual down payment ends up being 40k when I go to build (combination of principal paydown and a little appreciation).

    re: Kevin Yoo
    I see your point on the analysis part. Yea. The holding costs will eat up some more money so my returns may not be as good.

    I'm just looking at what I think the market will be in 2 or 3 years and don't see the prices of homes letting me get this kind of return while allowing me to add this nice of a product (i.e brand new).

    I'm sure I could buy some 50 to 70 year old homes that, if I put down 30k on could net me 400 or so before vacancies/repairs. But what kind of appreciation am I really going to get? And what kind of repair bills would I be expecting?

    I have some of those types of homes already. And to have brand new duplexes like this would really help me spread out my repair expenses going forward. I figure I have 18 homes right now and will probably have about 23 to 25 in 2 years. This would give me 25% of my inventory in a great area and, more importantly, brand new construction product to help lower

    If I could be all in on each side for about 30k or so (30% of 85k per side plus 11.5k per lot) and will end up getting 500 to 600 a month before vacancies/repairs on a brand new product, I think I'm going to be fairly satisfied with that.

    And if the prices of homes don't go up, then maybe I'll just sit on the lots another year or two. Or maybe I'll flip the lots to make a little money or even break even. I figure at 22.5k, the most I'm really risking is a couple grand of interest payments.

    The one other value for me in doing duplexes is that a duplex only burns up one loan spot for me as opposed to SFH burning up 2. So for a long term investment, I just look at these duplexes as a good way to add some significant chunks of income even though i'm having to pay a little more for it than I am now.

    And the other thing is that, down by me where there are mostly smaller towns, it is not as easy to even come across duplex lots like this because they simply don't zone that many and usually only the "insiders" end up getting them.

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Here's a simpler way of how I'm looking at this.
    1) Put down 30k for future deals to make 400/mo and have to come up with 1 loan for each door.
    2) Put down 30k per door for 2 doors to make 600/mo per door and have to come up with 1 loan for 2 doors.

    Thats really what I'm looking at. Part of it is definitely some guesswork. But assuming prices keep moving up, I think in 2 or 3 years, thats about where sfh deals will be in my area. Putting no money down, I would be getting a profit of about 250 to 300 a month.

    If I bought that deal down with 30k, I would make another 150 a month or so. That would mean profit of 400 to maybe 450 a month (when I say profit, I mean profit before vacancies and repairs).

    But if I use that same 30k per side of the duplex, I would be getting 600 a month or 1200 for each duplex. And I would only need to burn up one of my conventional spots to add 2 units.

    Thats really where I netted out on this thing.
    30k into SFH deals in the future will only get me to about 400 to 450 a month. 30k on these deals should get me to 600/mo each. And, for this one, I'll have brand new product to boot.

  • Miami, FL · Member since 2012 · 612 posts · 189 votes
    13y

    Thank you for the clarification. Your last post really summarized your options well. The costs for maintaining a duplex property versus two SFR is going to be much less per unit - and even more so since they are new units.

    As long as you have calculated the holding costs until the rental income begins and you are willing and able to handle that, then the new duplexes could be a stabilizing factor in your portfolio.

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