Getting Frost Bit on Our First BRRRR !!!

Getting Frost Bit on Our First BRRRR !!!

Rental Property Investor · Painted Post, NY · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes

Hey BP!

I'll preface my post with this…Yes, we’re actively seeking legal counsel but the forum seemed like a great way to get additional input. Not knowing if this situation will require litigation, I’ve intentionally withheld the specific area this property is located in.

My wife and I (myself acting as buyer's agent) purchased what was advertised as a 3 story / 4-unit property in the state of NY with the intent to BRRR with a hard money loan. This property is listed as "411 – Apartments" which by definition means be 4 units or greater. This fact has been confirmed 3 times with both the Assessor's and Real property offices. I also have an email from the code enforcer about a month after the purchase stating "I have not found substantial evidence to contest the buildings current occupancy as a 4-unit dwelling. The renovation/alteration of the house does need to be designed by an engineer or architect in compliance with the Existing Building Code".

After receiving a stop work letter during demolition, and realizing that my GC made an oversight on the level of drawings required for the level of renovations we needed to perform, we hired a local design/PE company to complete the structural, electrical, plumbing, fire, and energy efficiency as required by code enforcement. Since the design company has been in talks with code enforcement, they have now rescinded their prior statement of not contesting the 4-unit occupancy status and state that they do no have a certificate of occupancy for a 4 unit (CoO aren't commonly used in this area). They are also not recognizing the 3rd floor as ever being approved for occupitable space which is now considered an addition, forcing us to bring the property into compliance with the International Building Code not the Existing building code as stated in the email. This new information would require the property to have a fire suppression system, as well as a paved parking lot with a combined cost of ~$45,000 which no longer makes the property BRRRR friendly.

Options we've developed:

1) Make the property into a 3 unit- Using a mezzanine clause in the code we can utilize 1/3 of the 3rd floor's square footage, mezzanine it to the 2nd floor, and it will be consider 2nd floor. This option will allow for a 3 bedroom/2 bathroom unit and avoids the ~$45k in upgrades but will most likely cause the total rent roll for the property to be ~$200 less than projected as a 4 unit. This option also impacts the refinance as the property will now have comparable sales with other 3 units. 

2) Install the fire suppression system and parking lot with the hopes that the property will appraise for the additional amount so the refinance will cover the additional costs. Based on my comps when purchasing this property this is highly unlikely but we would hire an appraisal company to verify this option prior.


Any help that anyone can provide is greatly appreciated. 


Travis

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Jared W SmithBusiness Member
Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
7y

Disclaimer: I am an architect, but I am not YOUR architect. I am not giving professional advice only general information. Contact a local architect/engineer for a detailed consultation specific to your project/locale.

Your first strike was starting work without permits and have the Building Dept. issue you a stop work order. Not a great way to start your relationship with them especially since you're likely to need their assistance in future owning a property there.  Also, from your post, it appears as though you suspect the engineer of influencing the officials to change their decision on it being 4-family. Am I missing something? 

Nevertheless, it's hard for you to have a leg to stand on without an official document from the Municipality/Property Assessor which states the property type and occupancy parameters. You weren't given any documentation when you purchased the property? Any original plans? Certificate of Occupancy?   @Travis Ferree    

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  • Ken B.Pro Member
    yucca valley, CA · Member since 2015 · 77 posts · 33 votes
    7y

    @Travis Ferree 

    After conversion how large are the other units and #bdrms.

  • Jared W SmithBusiness Member
    Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
    7y

    Disclaimer: I am an architect, but I am not YOUR architect. I am not giving professional advice only general information. Contact a local architect/engineer for a detailed consultation specific to your project/locale.

    Your first strike was starting work without permits and have the Building Dept. issue you a stop work order. Not a great way to start your relationship with them especially since you're likely to need their assistance in future owning a property there.  Also, from your post, it appears as though you suspect the engineer of influencing the officials to change their decision on it being 4-family. Am I missing something? 

    Nevertheless, it's hard for you to have a leg to stand on without an official document from the Municipality/Property Assessor which states the property type and occupancy parameters. You weren't given any documentation when you purchased the property? Any original plans? Certificate of Occupancy?   @Travis Ferree    

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  • Rental Property Investor · Painted Post, NY · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Ken Bailey

    If made into the 3 unit there will be a 1 bedroom (app. 550sq.ft.) , 2 bedroom (app.800sq.ft.) , 3 bedroom (app. 1200sq.ft.)

  • Rental Property Investor · Painted Post, NY · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Jared W Smith

    I couldn't agree with you more. I was over trusting of what my GC was telling me, and he was stating that he was in constant communication with code enforcement. Either way, the lesson learned that I need to be involved in communications with CE either before closing, or as soon as possible after.

    No, my PE isnt attempting to persuade them I was just outlining that up until she became involved, they were standing by their statement that they were no longer contesting the occupancy.

    Regarding documentation, everything we have states that it's a 4-unit. I had our closing attorney review everything again to verify that nothing was missed. As said before, the property is 100 years old, and certificates of occupancy are never used on properties of that age so I'm confused as to why now it's what they are using to contest the occupancy?

  • Ken B.Pro Member
    yucca valley, CA · Member since 2015 · 77 posts · 33 votes
    7y

    @Travis Ferree

    I was hoping they were oversized 1/2 bdrm. Could have added a bed room in each that would have added value.   

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 138 posts · 73 votes
    7y
    The existing building code may have been fine if you had not touched it- the moment you start work and renovation, municipalities often times will require you to bring it up to code and meet IBC rather than existing code. A fire suppression system is costly and absurd for a 3-4 unit residential project, so I would not go that route. I’d stick with making it 3 bedrooms or...not do any work at all to stay under existing code - but not sure how much demo and work has already been done.
  • Jared W SmithBusiness Member
    Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
    7y

    hmm.. I see. 

    I think the problem is, if you are gutting/major renovations the 3/4 units (which it seems like it is so) and the property is 100 years old, it is normally required to meet many of the current codes. Yes the suppression system is an extreme case but it might be that due to the work scope and the existing 4 units, it wouldn't be able to meet even the minimum code requirements. This could be any number of things from egress, fire separation, minimum bedroom sizes, window access and adjacency to adjoining lots/property, etc. 

    Before knowing what your renovation plans were, the officials that said yes it is a 4-unit did not have the big picture. 

    You need to review with your engineer what is astray in the eyes of the code officials and why the sudden change. It may be overly complicated and they just haven't explained the details to you. @Travis Ferree 

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