Post Frame Home Construction

[David Beard]

I was curious if anyone out there has had experience with both the construction and/or economics of building new pole barn homes in rural areas that are within commuting distance of a sizable metro area.

I have been approached with a JV business proposition from a trustworthy and experienced channel. The idea is to build 1500-2000 sf pole barn homes on 2-3 acre parcels. These can be constructed for about $40/sf (including environmentally friendly septic), with the lot purchase/prep running about $20k. So we would be all-in on a 1500sf home for around $85k, with exit price of $125k. This area is within easy commuting range (via interstate) of metro employment areas, while being very appealing to those favoring rural living, and there is very little housing available in this price range in the area.

They tell me that this type of home can be financed conventionally (still need to verify this), and we'd create our own comps after it got rolling. Lot costs could potentially be pushed down if land acquired in larger parcels, with homes constructed on contiguous lots. The homes are built with high energy efficiency (I'm going to look at a model tomorrow) and radiant flooring. The homes can be constructed in 45 days, and buyers pre-qualified preferably, so the turnaround time would be theoretically very swift.

Anyone done this type of thing, or can poke holes in it? The model home will be on the market soon, so I'll hopefully get some proof of concept based on how much demand they get from buyers.

[David Beard]

Jon Klaus, you've done lots of rural acreage stuff with non-stick built construction, so would be interested in your thoughts. (Though I know you seem to be focused on new builds in/around Austin these days, it appears.)

[Jon Klaus]

I think the key here is, will the homes qualify for conventional, FHA, VA, and USDA financing? If so, I see the model working. The competition for your product is mobile homes on small acreages, even though they may be inferior. Most banks still hate lending on mobile homes because so many were financed sub prime 5-10 years ago, and the default rate was very high.

The more you can distance from that kind of product, the better. From the bank's perspective. And the banks really are your customers.

Think about your buyer. $50K household income, 650 FICO, and wants new home in the country on land. Very few good options. If you can get them in for $5K down, you are in business. If it's $25K down, they have other options. FHA, VA, and USDA will be key.

Any lenders want to chime in?

@Joseph Pytcher ?

[David Beard]

Thank, @Jon Klaus, I agree 100% on financing being key and am verifying that now. Here are a few pictures found on-line, though I know we couldn't finish out in all knotty pine and hit our price target, so this is just an example. The rural area in IN has a property tax rate of about .9% after homestead, versus 2.2% in the nearby metro area in OH, which is very appealing as well. The framer can erect the shell in a week.

[Jon Klaus]

Great looking house for the money. I Googled more pics/sites and am impressed. I'd do one ASAP, and if it worked out, scale up.

[David Beard]

Thanks, Jon, I think the more contemporary terminology is "post frame" construction, since you mentioned googling around a bit.

I'm kind of itching to try it, would be something new with potential for volume.

Will update this topic for those who might be interested.

[Jon Klaus]

I've built a couple guest houses at my ranch recently--I'll look into post frame for the next one. Please post if you go forward.

[Pat L.]

@David Beard

great concept, please keep us updated.

Is there any chance you have a website for that design/blueprints.

It's definitely an intriguing concept given our rural demographics. It's amazing how many people around here buy a <1000 sq ft shack with a beautiful detached pole barn for $170k+, just to have the barn. One guy actually had the house (on a slab) moved back against the old pole barn so he had immediate access to the barn!!!.

This concept would be perfect for a 2 acre lot we are looking at ($40k) because a 'low cost new build' is tough because of the expensive basement pours.

It could also overcome the wetlands restriction on 'permanent' structures we are facing here. There is 16 acres nearby reduced from $50k to $9k because of a recent wetlands designation (in the front) but they will allow a mobile home &/or pole barn way back & the roadway is in & paved.

It could even be an interesting way around our brutal property taxes & it will definitely fit in with some commercial stuff we are looking into. There can be significant tax & insurance advantages to Owner Occupied Commercial/small business buildings around here.

thanks for posting...

[David Beard]

@Pat L. - I really don't have any further info or links at this stage of the game, as my digging into this really starts tomorrow with looking at a model in progress, and talking to the guy that frames them up, so I'll be sure to update. Yes, the savings on foundation is supposed to be tremendous with minimal slab requirements. And they can be constructed with tremendous energy efficiency, R30 in the walls or some such, plus radiant flooring, etc. I'm very interested in that angle as well for marketing the homes.

Exteriors are completely maint free and the metal roofs last decades. Interiors are very open floor plans, which is in the mainstream of appeal for buyers these days.

[Michael Lemieux]

@,

typically these homes are called post and beam construction or timber frame. Many of these homes are ultra high end usually showing more of the posts and beams inside of the finished walls/ceiling. There are many of these buildings around the world that are centuries old. I think you could sell "high end appeal" at an affordable price. The radiant heating is also very nice. My family has it in their business warehouse in northern N.Y., and when it's below 0 outside, they can comfortable work in their t shirts inside. Would love to know how it works out for you.

There are some great pics and info @ http://www.timberframe.org/

[David Beard]

@Michael Lemieux - thanks for the feedback and the "luxury home" perspective. That is not the end of the market I was thinking of for my area, but very interesting and is great food for thought. It really points out the diverse appeal of this type of home.

[Bill Gulley]

Post and beam construction is common here and is considered as luxury craftsmanship if done well in an appraisal or above average. Non-load bearing walls can provide advantages in design and materials used.

The issue, you'll find as to lot size in the secondary will be it being customary for the area, limiting to customary residential properties for excess land in the valuation.

I'd suggest if you're interested in rustic builds in an area, check with an appraiser as to the availability of comps. :)

[Mike H.]

Love the idea. Only on BP would something like this pop up.

The cost to build is amazingly low. My concern would be with the slab.
How does the flooring work in something like that? Does it have a subfloor on the slab or are you putting tile right on the slab?

Thats a big footprint. Do you have any concern that a slab may settle a little and then the floor is going to have all kinds of problems?

I do like the idea of it having an open floor plan and the design is pretty flexible. Still isn't going to look like a stick built home. But, it'll look decent enough for most people living in rural areas and they'll be getting brand new construction with a modern floor plan inside so thats a quality deal for them too.

Just wondering what the price point would be for 2,000 sq ft pole barn home. I wonder if you'd want to play with that a little bit. Maybe do one at 1,500 sq ft and another bigger one to see which one sells better. I would want more space than 1,500 sq ft if I'm on a 3 acre parcel. Big "yard" so big house. :-)

[Michael Lemieux]

This post really has some wheels turning in my mine. I agree w/ @, in the luxury craftsmanship. Some of the joinery on the high end homes is amazing. Myself, coming from an carpenter/metal working background, also like some of the more "new school" construction w/ exposed timbers and black iron bracketry, especially w/ wrought iron stairs, rails, and natural stone.

I also agree w/ @, bigger is better. I think (not sure) for a relatively smaller increase in building costs, a bigger house would bring you significantly more ROI, especially since you have access to a large buying pool.

One of the very nice features of the radiant heating is that the floor is warm. I remember living in N.Y. in the winter, even though the house was warm, the floor was always cold. With the radiant flooring you can walk around barefoot IF you want to. : )

[Sean H.]

@David Beard How did this turn out for you?

[Ryan R.]

This looks like a lot like http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com/models/.

I looked into these and still have interest in building one. There are numerous benefits; termite free, fire proof, reduced insurance costs, they can be assembled quickly and theoretically cheaper.

[Jon Klaus]

Originally posted by Ryan Richard:
This looks like a lot like http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com/models/.

I looked into these and still have interest in building one. There are numerous benefits; termite free, fire proof, reduced insurance costs, they can be assembled quickly and theoretically cheaper.

They've got a bolt together 4-plex kit

[Ryan R.]

Yes @Jon Klaus I've spent many hours crunching numbers and thinking of locations for one of those.

I think if you can save some money having it put together and negotiate a good deal with the manufacturer, it would be a sweet deal.

[Jean Bolger]

That pictured house is nice- I'd live there! (sans the pine might be an improvement, IMO)

Can someone give me a quicky explanation of what makes this "pole barn" construction and how it differs from "stick-built"?

[Ben Reiss]

Originally posted by Jean Bolger:
That pictured house is nice- I'd live there! (sans the pine might be an improvement, IMO)

Can someone give me a quicky explanation of what makes this "pole barn" construction and how it differs from "stick-built"?

I believe these are basically "post and beam" which is where there are only a few load bearing beams making up the frame. Think Amish barn, there is a skelaton of major load bearing pieces. The other walls are simply put in to divide space or left open for the room.

Stick built is standard 2x framing build as individual floors where the load is distributed to many load bearing walls in the home. Each wall is built and raised and then the joists above are placed onto the walls to build the next up to the roof.

hopefully that helps/makes sense

[Mark Bradford]

Hello everyone
This post was found by my wife awhile back. Ever since then I have been thinking about this. The idea of the building style and also the idea of "small" group of homes on one lot. Well I'm finding that in some countys in Indiana (the ones I want to invest in LOL)you can only have 1 dwelling per lot and the lot must be 1 acre or larger. The way around that is to re zone for a multi family. Well all the buildings on the lot have to be connected. See my idea was to build small higher end (for our area)seperate units with a garage on a 3-5 acre lot and have a common well and septic. Kinda like a small community in the county with each unit set on the shared lot for prime "cabin" like feel. Using the trees and etc.. to help this. Has anyone thought about this or had this problem with the zoning? I guess in short I should have said, "I want to build a muti family property with all units being separate or at least no more than two per structure. this units will be on one plot of land with a common well and septic"

Any thoughts on how to approach the zoning board if I was going to push?

[Michaela G.]

If you want to connect 2, then you could have the garages on the sides of the homes and connect 2 sets of garages to each other. That would still make the homes feel like SFH, because there's no common wall, except for the garage.

Also, maybe there are some other ways to stretch the definition of 'connection'?

Can units be connected through a 2nd story catwalk like deck, that has a connecting door, that is locked?

[Mark Bradford]

@michaela_Graham
Yes those ideas do work and thanks I really want to have seperate units or at least duplexs but if I go to duplexs each duplex needs its own septic and 1 acre lots. That doesnt fit my plan right now. We are still thinking. It will happen someday!

Thanks again for the reply!!

[Pat L.]

I just got this from a Zillow alert on Barn homes & the prices are interesting

& @mark one has an interesting join between the two

http://www.zillow.com/blog/2013-10-24/for-sale-barn-homes-mixing-old-new/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=emm-1113_RennovatedBarns-seemorecta

[Michael Lemieux]

@ Thanks for the post, the whole forum has really got me thinking. I always thought post and beam structures are very interesting.

@ thanks for the Kodiak link, I was thinking pre fab for a project I'm working on, never even thought about steel houses. I think that would actually work better for my scenario.

Thanks @ for getting this started!

[Karen Margrave]

Is that a home from a kit or ? What is the brand? Be sure to do a search on the company, as there's a huge variation in quality.

Have you checked out Yankee Barn Homes? They are the epitome of this type of house, though higher end. To me, if you're going to go with that type of house, go all in, otherwise you're just building a traditional house using a different method.

@Jon Klaus

@Jon Klaus

@Jon Klaus

@Jon Klaus