time and material contract with civil engineers

[Will Brown]

I'm developing a multi-family community from scratch, and hired a local civil engineer firm for site work (grading, erosion control, drainage plan, etc.) design. The design will be used to get city permits. 

It is expected that after we file the permit application, the city will come back with comments for us to revise the plan, and it is unclear how much change they city will want. So, in the contract we signed with the civil engineer, we have a fixed dollar figure for the initial design work leading up to permit application. However, due to the uncertainty of how much the engineer will have to work on the city's comments, our contract with the engineer says the engineer's work to address the city's comments will be on a time and material basis.

A few days ago the city got back to us with their comments regarding our permit application. The engineer told me an engineer will need to work 8 days full time to address all the comments, which seems to be an exaggeration of the work involved. Yet there is nothing I can do about it. It is impractical to change the engineer at this point.

I think this is a pretty common problem, very much like being presented a change order (on a time and material basis) by a General Contractor, except it is much hard to determine the time needed for an engineer to finish his job.

How do you deal with such a situation? I'm asking this both for the situation at hand, and for future reference.

If I can do things all over again, it seems my only choice is still a time and material contract for the engineer to work on the city's comments. Any suggestions?

[Kevin Williams]

Hello, I am new to this forum and this subject touched a nerve with me so here you go...

I have been in civil engineering for 28 years. I will be brief and say that it sounds like your being taken advantage of. When a civil engineering contract is put together, it is traditionally for a fixed price "PLAN CHECK CORRECTIONS INCLUDED". It is the engineer's obligation to him or herself as well as the client to anticipate approximately 3 planchecks depending on the complexity of the project. The cost associated with completing those corrections should be in the contract, but not necessarily spelled out, but definitely absorbed into the fixed price.

Depending on the size of the civil engineering company's design staff, it should take approximately 1 to 2 working-day weeks to turnaround a plancheck if the design was done within substantial conformance of the design standards of the governing agency. The traditional time for a civil engineer to require a T&M fee is usually:

1. On the front end during the pre-planning phase of a project which is normally a moving target until you have a final plan that can move forward into final design. This is the norm and I tend to set this at a time and materials basis to an amount not to exceed. In other words, I will set price of maybe $5K-$8K (depending on the project) which I would bill toward for pre-planning engineering. If the amount of work exceeds this amount I would contact the client to let them know, and give them justification for additional cost.

2. Changes beyond the scope of their contracted dictated by the owner or governing agencies or both.

Next project you do, ask the engineer to make sure that their cost covers plancheck corrections so there is an amicable understanding of what is being paid for. Nothing worse than someone knowingly taking advantage of you.

I hope this helps