Drilling well in Cincinnati for apartment building???

Question

Am I crazy to think about drilling a water well for my apartment building in Cincinnati???

I own a 12 unit for under a year and so far it's been a money pit. I've been thinking about saving money on water. We replaced some of the toilets with low-flow, as well as shower heads in some of the units. A bit early to tell if it really makes difference. I then thought maybe a well would save on water cost. The water bill is $600/mo.

Does anyone happens to know about well drilling in Cincinnati and the city and county regulations regarding this. I can't be the only one thinking about this.

And while at it, does anyone know about water efficient coin laundry machine and whether it would make any difference?

Any other insane water saving ideas???

Appreciate any input. Thanks!

DL Martin · Answer

@Roy N. , Yea, we have new, properly sized ABS. But the runs from the three buildings out to the city main sewer lines are probably 200 feet at the furthest point...

The problem is not on my property. The back up/resistance occurs at the street. The problem is that the Cincinnati Metropolitan Water District has squandered, misspent and misappropriated so much for so long, that the sewer system here is literally crumbling. The EPA has sued the CMWD to force the agency to do it's job and replace the crumbling infrastructure.

Its a mess.

DL

Guy Azta · Answer

@Roy N. thanks. We've been changing units upon move-outs to the 0.8 gpf toilets and installing low flow shower heads. Do you recommend the flavorless better?

Happy to learn more on the leak detecting valve. Is that for the entire building? Unit? Toilet?

@John Lenhart - never heard of RUBS. Read about it a bit. Looks interesting. Thanks for the idea. Yeah, need to find out what washer model we have. I read that the new models use about 10 gallons per wash, while those old school top loaders (called agitators) can use to to 40. Big difference. Thanks

Roy N. · Answer

Guy:

We have reduced water consumption by as little as 15% to more than 50% by installing low-flow fixtures and high efficiency laundry - the size of the reduction depends on what you are replacing and the usage patterns.  We also use flapperless toilets (1.2usg or less per flush) to avoid leakdown/run-on.   We are also about to test an leak detecting auto-shutoff valve.

In a multi-unit building also remove - or place behind locking plates - any hose bibs to avoid tenants washing their vehicles or running sprinklers for their kids.

I would be very surprised if you would be permitted to drill a well within the City.  Even if you were, the cost of treating the water for an apartment building may negate any savings you envision.

Roy N. · Answer

Do you have old, cast-iron mains?   We have lots of UHETs deployed and the only instances where we've had any issues is with old cast-iron sewer lines which are very deteriorated and rough on the inner surface.

If you have newer, properly sized and graded ABS lines you should have no issues.

DL Martin · Answer

It's probably impossible to operate at a profit from CA with only 10 units.

Water is cheap here. It is the sewer costs that are killing you. And there is no remedy.

Google "cincinnati metropolitan sewer district fraud"

pay special attention to headlines such as :

FBI investigating MSD spending - Cincinnati Enquirer

Audit of Metropolitan Sewer District cites poor oversight on spending, mismanagement

State auditor investigating Cincinnati Metropolitan Sewer District ...

State auditor to probe Cincinnati sewer district spending

your water/sewer bill is not that bad. I pay $2,000 per month on 39 units (all 1BR).

I have replaced every single toilet and shower head with low flow units. I also own my own commercial grade auger because those .8 gallon toilets are not going to create enough force to wash the poop and toilet paper all the way down the main line to the street sewer line. Thats a fact.

I would love to know why you say it's a "moneypit".  You should sell it to me.

DL

Guy Azta · Answer

@Omar Khan you wouldn't have known where to stash in those bags of money you would have made. Yeah, too bad indeed.

The point is well taken. I'll research it more. The funny thing is from all my investments, those that can benefit from cost segregation are those that have been negative cash flow, but I do foresee the situation changing next year, at which point I'd be like "oh my god, what am I gonna do with all this money???". Call Omar Khan of course!

Omar Khan · Answer

@Guy Azta You can always start reducing your overall tax bill/increase cash flows by these strategies. These are not restricted to just stabilized properties.

P.S. Should've become a CPA. Would've made a killing working with you... lol

Guy Azta · Answer

@Omar Khan too bad man. Was hoping to hire you as my CPA. Darn it ;-) Yeah, for sure. I heard of this in the past. Thanks for the article. This particular building is on its own LLC and I don't anticipate it getting to a break even by year end, not to mention profit, but that could change moving forward of course. Definitely an interesting point to consider, so kudos.

Omar Khan · Answer

@Guy Azta Think of cost segregation as an accelerated depreciation method. Here is a helpful article to get your started: Cost Segregation Benefits in Multifamily Properties

P.S. This is not accounting advice and you should consult with your CPA.

Guy Azta · Answer

Thanks @Matthew Paul @Omar Khan

Regarding cost segregation, are you referring to segregating the costs of toilets installations and other water related modifications so that they can be depreciated over 5 years instead of the norm? Can you elaborate more? I owned this building for less than a year and so far it's been a massive negative cash flow

Drilling well in Cincinnati for apartment building???

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