Finding Tax Lien help??

Question

What do you guys know about tax liens? How to find them how does Massachusetts handle them? Each county handles them differently I believe, so how does one find tax liened properties only and go about purchase them?

Ann Bellamy · Answer

I have bought MA tax liens.

You don't find the houses, you find the liens.  You do that by town, not by county, since taxes in MA are collected by each town, not by the county.  So you talk to the tax collector in the town, or in the case of Worcester, the auctions of the liens are on the city website.  Some towns don't sell the liens, some do it with a bid process of the entire portfolio, some sell one offs.

When you buy a tax deed in MA, (strange verbiage here in MA) you are not buying the property, you are buying the lien, and you go through a lengthy collection process, which may eventually result in a judgement at the end giving you the property, or you may have gotten paid off by then.

But wait, there's more!  The judge can still give the property back to the taxpayer!  Ask me know I know.  :-(

Based on my and my partners' experiences, we are giving 2 presentations on tax liens at Black Diamond, including the legal process presented by a MA tax lien attorney, our process buying a portfolio of liens, and the process of going through a service to buy liens in Illinois, which pay 36%.  there is more to THAT story also.  The part 2 of the presentations will be "the rest of the story".

First presentation is at Black Diamond on Feb 20 in Waltham, I'll be posting on the BP events page.

Steve Walters · Answer

@Ann Bellamy  What service are you using to buy taxes in IL?  I bought in two counties this week in IL and did not get anywhere near 36%.

Josh Carr · Answer

@Alex Jean Baptiste MA is a state that is considered "tax_taxing" and you do have to contact the municipalities or the townships to find their listing often times.  If you are looking in Boston they have a list online occasionally and there is a good site to use which is:

http://www.masslandrecords.com/

If you go into a county and then to the township and have the last name of the property owner you can find out what is going on with the property and if it is in the tax taking stage or not. The properties will go to the highest bidder.  Since MA is primarily a deed state that acts like a lien state with commonwealth government it's done differently but the end results will be the same as you acquire property after the redemption period is up.  Here are some of the state statutes for MA:

General Laws Section 62

http://www.mass.gov/portal

Mike Koprowski · Answer

Hey @Alex Jean Baptiste I think you need to pay a visit to the local tax collector.

In my town I've seen a list of properties that compiled the property owners and their addresses for people that were in arrears on property taxes. It's all public knowledge because it gets printed in the news papers as part of the lien process so they shouldn't have an issue giving you the info.

I do not believe that "we" as the public have access to the county tax site, but I've had my local tax collector and assessor both give me info on properties I was interested in. I'll then cross reference the info to the towns GIS website and Registry of Deeds website to get as much data as I can.

I am a member of my local Board of Health so I've gotten to know the ladies working in the tax collector and assessor's office pretty well and they've been an amazing resources for information. I've even got them on the lookout for properties that I may be interested in!!  I'd highly recommend getting friendly with them.

We just had a tax auction in town earlier this summer and I went to observe, it was very interesting.  The properties were all raw land but there were certainly some deals to be had, you just need to do your research ahead of time.  The auction company was Sullivan & Sullivan Auctions, they hold auctions all around Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Rhode Island.

Good luck, hope this helps.

-Mike

Dave Van Horn · Answer

@Alex Jean Baptiste

Someone who specializes in tax liens may be able to answer or expand on this better than me, but to my understanding there are tax lien states and tax deed states. In tax lien states you can buy the lien, in tax deed states you can go to a tax sale to buy the property.

Massachusetts is a tax deed state. Tax deed auctions are held on a local municipality level  at various times throughout the year (the municipalities are the ones who take ownership of the delinquent  property and sell them at auction).  Pretty sure the actual selling process of the tax delinquent properties varies depending on the municipality.

Property owners have six (6) months to exercise their right to  redeem the property after sale though, and they can do this by paying the purchase price of the tax deed plus a 16% interest penalty.

Leslie Motton · Answer

How do you find tax liens in Ohio? Is there software that can be purchased that generates a list?  Who do you contact in each county to find the tax liens?

Josh Carr · Answer

@Steve Walters You are correct. It is bid down on the interest rate.  Thanks Steve.  :)

Steve Walters · Answer

@Josh Carr IL does not bid down on the percentage of ownership, you bid down the interest rate.  Highest bid is 18% for 6 months, but most of the counties do not go at 18%.  If you bid it in at 18% and it goes the full term, you will receive 108%, if it redeems, not counting any interest on any subsequent taxes that you might pay.

Josh Carr · Answer

@Steve Walters you usually have to get the 18% interest rate from the beginning to have a higher yield in IL up to 36%.  If you are purchasing less than that it may not yield the same amount.  I have seen people get 105% on their investment after several years but like I mentioned they have to have 18% from the beginning. When you are bidding down on the percentage of ownership you may not get that amount and therefore will not get the full interest yielding 36%.  IL is a good state to invest in though.

Ann Bellamy · Answer

I don't buy in Illinois, my business partner did, and so I have only her comments to go on.  She will be going into more detail in her presentation.  Sorry I'm not more help on that, @Steve Walters.  And the promised vs actual return was quite different, I understand.

Finding Tax Lien help??

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