Strategy For Working With Realtors & Commissions

Strategy For Working With Realtors & Commissions

Select a State · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 4 votes

As a realtor I just want you guys to know that you are being a little too generous to have the realtor make their commission on the A-B transaction AND B-C transaction. Just know that most, not all, but most realtors are exceedingly happy to have you take over the short sale for them and get them to closing. Here's what I've been doing and it works great:

1) Call an agent who has a listing that is subject to short sale
2) Get the details from the agent on the short sale i.e. are there any offers? have they engaged the bank? etc.
3) Most times the answers are no to the above questions, and I tell them that my niche is working on short sales and I'm getting most of them approved very quickly and with minimal headaches and most importantly getting to closing. I then give them some tidbits to let them know how they can get a short sale done quickly and efficiently. I say that the banks are usually very cooperative once they have a COMPLETE short sale package and especially when that package contains a CASH offer. I tell the agent I know the checklist of items the bank wants to see and have investors who back me with cash to submit a cash offer. I ask if they'd be interested in letting me put the package together WITH them and let me handle all their headaches of dealing with the bank.

4) Here's the key on saving a few thousand dollars in commission per transaction. I tell the agent the nuts and bolts of the A-B and B-C transaction. I say something like IF the bank accepts an offer that is good enough for me to buy, we will sell to the C buyer and you will make your commission at the higher resale price, and I will guarantee that it is 3%. At my resale price it will be cheap enough where I can give the buyer's agent 2.5%, thereby paying a total of 5.5% commission on my resale price. Again, as an agent I'm telling you MOST agents will be thrilled to have someone handle their short sale which they don't want to do, to have a cash offer in the package to give maximum leverage when dealing with the bank, and have a secured listing that is approved and ready to go for the C buyer and have it locked up at 3% on their end.

So here's the commission totals in an example:

$200k FMV
$120k Cash Offer and bank approval
$6,000 Commission paid by bank (5% of $120k)

$175k Resale Price (priced for quick sale)
$9,625 Commissions (5.5% of resale price)

The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625. The math is $9,625 acutal commissions paid minus $6,000 bank paid commissions equals $3,625. So for a little over 3,500 bucks I'm getting the deal and utilizing the services and resources of agents and the MLS.

Old-School way of getting agents on board: pay agent 5% of commission of first A-B deal which is paid by the bank. Then pay a minimum of 5% on the B-C transaction which in the above example would equal $8,750. That is how much you are subtracting from your profit. Multiply that times the number of deals you do a year. OUCH!!!!

This forum has been very helpful to me so I hope this helps some of you. As an agent let me say one last time, the way I'm doing it is working and agents are happy about it. Win-Win, that's what I'm all about.

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Rehabber · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 802 votes
16y
Originally posted by Tom Medwin:

The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625.


I am not picking on Tom.... But I am going to show you how his statement above is completely wrong.

First, banks deal on a net proceeds basis. They will compare your offer against a foreclosure scenario in order to see if your offer is better. In essence, your short sale offer will need to be better than what they estimate they will receive at Auction or as an REO.

Your offer - closing and carrying costs - commisions - lien payoffs - legal expenses = Net Basis

So let us say that according to the lenders analysis based on a BPO, they estimate that they will receive $115K in net proceeds as an REO.

Your offer is $120K gross. $120K - $2.4K (CC) - $6K (commissions) - $0 (no liens) - $1.6K (legal) = $110K

When comparing your $110K Net Short Sale offer to the $115K estimate Net as an REO, they will not accept your offer.

In order for you to acheive a better SS offer over the Net proceeds as an REO, you will need to raise your offer by more than $6K to $126K. By raising your offer, you are already eating into your spread thus costing YOU profit.

Lenders will not pay for commissions on the A to B, you will 100% of the time. Your job is to get the lender to accept the lowest Net Proceeds as possible. I am not telling you not to pay commissions, I am just telling you not to overpay. Paying too much does not help you, the seller, or the agent. There should be a compromise.
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  • Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Hi Tom,
    I already do this. Basically I tell them we do the work on AB, and they get a full 6% commission on BC - cobroke if there is any. So far, most agents are very happy, although I have had some agents say no way and want 6 on the front and 6 on the back.

    Usually I just say, I'll give you the 6 on the front, but I'll relist with a new agent on the back if you're going to be greedy and you can have 6 on the LOWER sale. I'll give the higher sale to someone I've worked with before (usually my parter agency who will take discounted commis for the sale)

    Some agents just don't get it though, no matter what.

  • Centennial, CO · Member since 2009 · 758 posts · 251 votes
    16y

    Great post and reply. Many are paying on both sides, allowing double dipping, which does get heavy considering you are bringing the offer and negotiating with the bank.

  • Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    I still think this is a good thread because I'm very curious what other investors do. I certainly like my payment structure, but is it worth to pay more to get more deals?

    Anyone else care to chime in?

  • Investor · Wayne, PA · Member since 2009 · 21 posts · 0 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Tom Medwin:


    So here's the commission totals in an example:

    $200k FMV
    $120k Cash Offer and bank approval
    $6,000 Commission paid by bank (5% of $120k)

    $175k Resale Price (priced for quick sale)
    $9,625 Commissions (5.5% of resale price)

    The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625. The math is $9,625 acutal commissions paid minus $6,000 bank paid commissions equals $3,625. So for a little over 3,500 bucks I'm getting the deal and utilizing the services and resources of agents and the MLS.

    How does this commission split look on the HUD?

  • Rehabber · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 802 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Tom Medwin:

    The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625.


    I am not picking on Tom.... But I am going to show you how his statement above is completely wrong.

    First, banks deal on a net proceeds basis. They will compare your offer against a foreclosure scenario in order to see if your offer is better. In essence, your short sale offer will need to be better than what they estimate they will receive at Auction or as an REO.

    Your offer - closing and carrying costs - commisions - lien payoffs - legal expenses = Net Basis

    So let us say that according to the lenders analysis based on a BPO, they estimate that they will receive $115K in net proceeds as an REO.

    Your offer is $120K gross. $120K - $2.4K (CC) - $6K (commissions) - $0 (no liens) - $1.6K (legal) = $110K

    When comparing your $110K Net Short Sale offer to the $115K estimate Net as an REO, they will not accept your offer.

    In order for you to acheive a better SS offer over the Net proceeds as an REO, you will need to raise your offer by more than $6K to $126K. By raising your offer, you are already eating into your spread thus costing YOU profit.

    Lenders will not pay for commissions on the A to B, you will 100% of the time. Your job is to get the lender to accept the lowest Net Proceeds as possible. I am not telling you not to pay commissions, I am just telling you not to overpay. Paying too much does not help you, the seller, or the agent. There should be a compromise.
  • Select a State · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
    Originally posted by Tom Medwin:


    So here's the commission totals in an example:

    $200k FMV
    $120k Cash Offer and bank approval
    $6,000 Commission paid by bank (5% of $120k)

    $175k Resale Price (priced for quick sale)
    $9,625 Commissions (5.5% of resale price)

    The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625. The math is $9,625 acutal commissions paid minus $6,000 bank paid commissions equals $3,625. So for a little over 3,500 bucks I'm getting the deal and utilizing the services and resources of agents and the MLS.


    How does this commission split look on the HUD?



    My agreement with the listing agent is to pay them 3% of the resale price....so it really doesn't matter where it comes from as long as it totals 3%, or $5,250 in my above example. So on the A-B transaction the bank has typically been paying 5%. So 5% of $120,000 equal $6,000. Now this is where it helps that I am an agent. If you are not one then you need a good agent on your team that can work with you. So on the A-B the listing agent will make his $5,250 and myself or my buyer's agent will make $750. So the listing agent's 3% comes right there from the A-B transaction. Since I'm an agent I can collect the other $750. To be honest I'm not sure how you could get that $750 if you're not an agent. Really a buyer's agent isn't really doing anything except going on the transaction as the buyer's agent, so I don't know if you can work something out with them somehow? You could just give that extra amount to the listing agent as a bonus to keep the deals coming to you OR..... figure out the numbers ahead of time so you can get a better deal from the bank by only asking for a commission that would equal the 3% of your resale price and then your listing agent is a dual agent representing you as the buyer and the seller.

    So all that being said, the listing agent is taken care of and I only have to pay a buyer's agent 2.5% on the resale price of the B-C transaction which is $4,375. Again in my example since I'm the agent I've collected $750 from the A-B transaction so really I'm paying out $3,625 ($4,375 - $750). Hope that helps.

  • Select a State · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Scott Hubbard:
    Originally posted by Tom Medwin:

    The bank is already paying $6,000 so I'm really only coughing up $3,625.


    I am not picking on Tom.... But I am going to show you how his statement above is completely wrong.

    First, banks deal on a net proceeds basis. They will compare your offer against a foreclosure scenario in order to see if your offer is better. In essence, your short sale offer will need to be better than what they estimate they will receive at Auction or as an REO.

    Your offer - closing and carrying costs - commisions - lien payoffs - legal expenses = Net Basis

    So let us say that according to the lenders analysis based on a BPO, they estimate that they will receive $115K in net proceeds as an REO.

    Your offer is $120K gross. $120K - $2.4K (CC) - $6K (commissions) - $0 (no liens) - $1.6K (legal) = $110K

    When comparing your $110K Net Short Sale offer to the $115K estimate Net as an REO, they will not accept your offer.

    In order for you to acheive a better SS offer over the Net proceeds as an REO, you will need to raise your offer by more than $6K to $126K. By raising your offer, you are already eating into your spread thus costing YOU profit.

    Lenders will not pay for commissions on the A to B, you will 100% of the time. Your job is to get the lender to accept the lowest Net Proceeds as possible. I am not telling you not to pay commissions, I am just telling you not to overpay. Paying too much does not help you, the seller, or the agent. There should be a compromise.


    Hi Scott,

    You may be 100% right, however it may be that some banks already have a commission rate figured into their template to begin with. To not ask for it is to waste money that could take care of these agents and keep them happy. Now someone told me that is the case but I don't know that it is true across the board or if it varies by lender. Certainly in an REO situation the bank is going to pay agent commissions also, so they would figure that into their analysis when considering the short sale vs foreclosure. At least here in PA it takes about a year until they foreclose so the risk is much greater that the property could be vandalized or burned down and their loss would be total. So a short sale with guaranteed funds now is a lot more appealing than waiting for many months and hoping they can sell for more at REO and hoping the property doesn't become more dilapidated.

    Like I said, though, you could be right. My thread is geared towards those who are paying agents on both A-B and B-C transactions and letting them know that in most cases agents are happy to make ANYTHING. Haha, that's the truth I know. I talk to many agents who have done plenty of deals that never make it to settlement and they have done a lot of work for free.....myself included. Hence the reason I'm trying to work myself out of the realtor side of the business.

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    As a negotiator I totally agree with Scott.

    Another item that is also being left out. The cost to you the investor on the A-B commissions. IF you are using a transactional lendere, you will be paying for the commissions and also for "using" the transactional lenders funds.

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    The other major item that is bieng left out. The poster is an Agent. So, he is gaining some of the commissions.

    If you are not an agent paying this high of commissions does not make since.

    I mean nothing personal to anyone. Just pointing out the facts.

  • Real Estate Investor · Murrieta, CA · Member since 2009 · 34 posts · 1 vote
    16y

    James or Scott can you give an example of what you "typically" pay in commissions/financing (trans. funding)?

  • Investor · Wayne, PA · Member since 2009 · 21 posts · 0 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Brett Sodders:
    James or Scott can you give an example of what you "typically" pay in commissions/financing (trans. funding)?


    Would someone like to summarize how they pay A-B & B-C commissions? I am getting confused.
  • Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    I could be completely misinterpreting this whole thread but I think the point is not to pay on both sides. So if I'm paying 6% total on the BC -(less) what was taken from the AB, does it matter what the net is?

    So for instance, the agent makes 5% on the AB and then I have to cough up 6% on the BC, NOW I've paid more money, whereas what I believe Tom is saying you can subtract what the agent made on the AB from a 6% total on the BC.

    Wow, even as I write this it's confusing, but somehow I know what *I* mean .... LOL even if no one else does.

    EXAMPLE:
    Transaction A:
    Example:
    Listing Agent currently has an agreement to sell the property at $150,000 at a fee of 5%:
    (If lender forces Agent to receive less commission, we will make up difference to the agent on the resale of the property)
    $150,000 5% $7,500
    WE pay 6% (less lender paid commission on side A) on the RESALE price, of transaction B. The difference is paid out at the closing on Transaction B.
    We sell property at $190,000, total commission due to Agent would be:

    $190,000 * 6% = $11,400.00

    Therefore,

    $11,400 - $7,500 (already paid by lender) = $3,900 Owed:

    Transaction B:
    We sell to end buyer
    Sale Price Additional $ due to Agent
    WE sell to end buyer: $190,000 $3,900

    Example:
    With a 6% Listing Agreement Fee at the HIGHER amount, Company is paid:

    Sale Price Company Paid
    Homeowner sells to us: $150,000 $7,500

    We sell to end buyer: $190,000 $3,900
    TOTAL due to Agent: $11,400

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