Pre-forclosure listing preferences?

Question

Oops: "pre-foreclosure"
Hello. I am looking for ~20A raw (but suitable for a cabin) land in the Blue Ridge/Smoky Mtn region (W/SW VA; E TN, mostly). Up in the mountains is preferable, but foothills might be OK. The more remote the better. This is to hold, not resell. It does not look like any of the pre-foreclosure listing services specialize in this region (although I suppose that picking a regional bank to check REOs could work as a filter for those listings) Does anyone here have experience that would lead them to recommend one listing service over the others for this search?
It occurs to me that I may have the horse pushing the cart here - I understand that foreclosures on raw property will be much scarcer than on housing, but am I wrong to assume that they do sometimes occur?
Thanks.

-Roland

William Alston · Answer

I have property with no neighbors and for probably the same reasons as you, privacy at least. But there are still usually people living on the road in and they might know as much about others on that road even if their homes are not within view of one another. As far as researching I am constantly in this mode and have only found the following ways to be available to me county records real estate sites newspapers magazines talking to people and walking the ground if you find another let me know. Good luck and let us know how it turns out Its always good to know what is working and what is not.

R Deschain · Answer

I seemed to have swallowed a copy of that same Scrabble board, so no worries :-) Thanks for the informative replies. The "talk to neighbors" suggestion is probably great in most situations, except one in which one of the main objectives is not to have any :-) Anyway, what I wanted to find out was whether there is any way to research such a property that is dramatically easier or more productive than what I have been trying so far, and my interpretation of your answers is that there is not. So I'll now trudge on in greater contentment. Answers are Good Things, but one doesn't always get one's preference. If that was the case, there would be no need to ask. Thanks again! -Roland

William Alston · Answer

Roland, You make a very good point when you state... "My experience in selling property indicates that it would be exceedingly rare for an agent to willingly put their client's interests ahead of their own by leaving any potential money (and commission) on the table." Touche! In so much as your experience is validated over and over by the similar experiences of others,myself included, let me say this. First, what you are describing is unfortunate for the real estate industry, as it was up until recently, but has simple solutions in Real Estate 2.0. (My real estate blog, if you care to go to my profile to look it up can explain RE 2.0 in depth. (FYI my blog is informational only Never any selling) Second, it is a clear violation of many legal obligations imposed on the real estate professional as regards protecting your interests as a member of the public. Yeah so what else is new? What does one do about it? Find the willing and able professional that understands his/her role and who discharges his/her duty faithfully. One thing which is misunderstood by many people is that "any real estate professional anywhere in the country can provide representation for any member of the public regardless of their place of domicile". There are rules of course about whether or not and how the person might get paid but you can pick who represents you, keep looking! If you have searched the immediate area and can find no one suitable to your needs then look out side of the area for someone to help you. This is just one of the things I have been teaching people for some time. There are good people out there but you do have to sift a lot of dirt to find a gem, in my experience. In response to the question below.. "...wouldn't this strategy require finding someone who is not represented by a seller's agent, or at least not by a typical example of same?" The answer is no! As long as you can find a non typical example of the industry (These are what I call "willing and able real estate professionals") to represent your interests then the relative merits of the listing agent's integrity are less significant but still an obvious factor. But isn't this always the case in business, that one must watch carefully the words and deeds of others? Your intuition was right, if you have already considered this avenue but your analysis was missing important data. You can decide who represents your interest regardless of who lists the property. OR ...the person selling this property might not be listed for sale yet. If listed for sale, then be sure who you take to the party with you. My rule in choosing people to represent me, whether lawyers, real estate people or anyone else that has a duty to protect me is quite simple. "If you are going to a fist fight, take a knife..or a gun.. or both." If you have narrowed down the areas you want to live in just go meet the neighbors and ask simple questions like, Is it nice living here? Is the soil fit for gardening? Do you get much sun... or any thing that is actually important to you. Then be quiet and listen to them. That is the hardest thing I ever taught to new agents, being quiet and listening. Tell them what you are hoping to do, that is "buy and hold", and ask if they know about anybody selling or thinking of selling. Ask them about agents/brokers, if there is a particularly bad one working in the area their name will come up before the good ones and at least you know who to avoid. With proper presentation of your case by a willing and able professional the case can be made to the seller because remember in this example the money isn't the most important thing to them, but rather what kind of person buys their land. Though it is unlawful to discriminate against a buyer for reasons of race, creed, gender or any one of several other special categories of protected rights, it is not unlawful to discriminate FOR someone because you like them. Understanding motivation is as important in bargaining as is understanding value. One last thought on negotiating and contract terms in general which is in response to your statement... "I even considered offering to buy contingent on holding x number of years, not subdividing smaller than y (where this is not already embedded in zoning) or some other limitation (not a codicil that would become a permanent part of the deed, however)." Once again I see by your language that you are aware of the potential problems inherent in each case. In negotiating it may be in your best interests to state your intentions generally but be exceedingly cautious about overstating your case and making these terms HAVE to appear in the contract. Things change and we are living in especially changeable times, though I doubt that in most jurisdictions you could enforce any agreement NOT TO SELL. Here is a generalization about contracts that I have found invariably to be true, that "the more things you have in a contract the less people actually understand what they wrote" and its corollary, "the more words you leave on the table the easier it is for a lawyer to bring you grief." A favorite attorney comment of mine is this, and it was made in an actual consultation "Never write anything down, you might have to live with it!" I hope I didn't bore you, I swallowed a scrabble board when I was young and words just seem to keep popping out of my mouth. Information should be free and flow like water. Know the truth and it shall set you free.. but first its really gonna make you mad

R Deschain · Answer

Thanks for the reply. I understand what you are suggesting, and that approach actually already occurred to me. I even considered offering to buy contingent on holding x number of years, not subdividing smaller than y (where this is not already embedded in zoning) or some other limitation (not a codicil that would become a permanent part of the deed, however). But wouldn't this strategy require finding someone who is not represented by a seller's agent, or at least not by a typical example of same? My experience in selling property indicates that it would be exceedingly rare for an agent to willingly put their client's interests ahead of their own by leaving any potential money (and commission) on the table. -Roland

William Alston · Answer

R Deschain, You are not wrong to assume that they occur but you may be waiting a long time for it to happen. I think somehow there is a misconception that the only good deals out there are REO's and Short Sales. Anyone who needs to sell in a down market has their value driven down by the sales around them. If in fact what you are looking for is a nice piece to hold onto I would suggest a different strategy. Find someone who needs or wants to sell but isn't in trouble with their mortgage. This type of person very often has a strong emotional attachment to their property and might be hoping to find someone who would care for it as they do. The fact that you want to keep it and hold it rather than make a quick return might be the thing to get them on your side. This is probably statistically more probable than finding the perfect property in your mind's eye but that is also a foreclosure. See my point? Path of least resistance type of thing eh?