Auction "Characters"

Auction "Characters"

Dayton, OH · Member since 2008 · 517 posts · 17 votes

Today I attended my first sheriff's auction. I wasn't there to actually buy anything, I mostly just wanted to watch and get a feel for how it works when you go to one of these things. Over the course of 2 hours I started noticing certain "characters" and the roles they played. Here is what I noticed, it would be great if others would also weigh in here with their own observations:

(in order from largest group to smallest group)
1. Watchers. These were people (usually young men) that stayed for a while and left without ever bidding. It's possible that some of these people were just learning like me, but I have to wonder how many of them had planned on bidding, but never bothered because a house got bid up out of their price range?
2. Part-timers. These were typically older men (older meaning they looked old enough to be retired). Most of these guys were pretty social and seemed to know each other as well as the people conducting the auction. This group usually waited until the first time the auctioneer called "going once", and would make minimum raises until the price went out of their range. This group would bid on multiple properties, but they seemed to stick to one area. I overheard one of these guys walk in late and ask his friend "how many have been sold in Huber?"These guys were actively bidding up to about 70% of retail value.
3. Ozzie and Harriet. These were the people (usually couples) that were looking to buy a house for their own personal usage. They bid as soon as they could and sometimes even tried to bid before the bank made its opening bid. They always made minimum raises; in one case I watched a condo bidding war go from $275K up to around $325K in $1K increments! These people were only there to bid on a single house; these people left as soon as they won (or lost) the property that they wanted. They usually increased the price by the minimum raise and they bid up to 90% of retail value.
4. The professional. There was only one guy that I saw and would call a professional. He bid on every property that he wanted and he won every single one of them. He bid on multiple properties in multiple areas (poor, run down areas as well as "nice" neighborhoods). There were two properties that he purchased where he won the auction... and the bank didn't even bid! So he got the auction for the minimum asking price on those properties. There was also a notable bidding war that he won: one of the "Part-timers" was bidding against the bank and was about to win the auction. "Going once, going twice..." until the professional entered the bidding war. They made various raises and the professional was always quick to reply with his counterbid. At the end of the day he got the house for 95% of the "appraised" value, even though the retail price was much higher, so he still bought the house at 65% of retail value. Needless to say, I asked this man for his business card and plan on doing some work with him. :pup:

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  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    I plan to go to my first auction this weekend to see how it works. I've been evaluating some properties I want to bid on a couple weeks after my little "test run".

    You made one comment I actually have been wondering... do the banks actually "bid up" the starting asking price some times?

    I was curious if it is even possible for a house to actually get sold at the starting price (because frankly the property I really want for a rental I can't afford for it to go up at all if it will make any positive cashflow)

    curious if you've been to any other auctions, I see this post is kind of old.

    Steph

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2008 · 44 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    I have been to the foreclosure auctions in LA County and sometimes the properties go for a dollar over the starting bid.

    It depends on the ratio of the starting bid to the value of the home. If the starting bid is 80% or higher it will likely go back to the bank or be bought by someone wanting to live there.

    60% to 80% it will be bid upon by the regulars.

    I have not seen anything sell below 60% of value.

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "juzamjedi":
    There were two properties that he purchased where he won the auction... and the bank didn't even bid!

    What does the above mean?

    Who set the opening number? Is that not the lender who determines what the auction starts at? Why does a lender need to bid at all if they set the opening price?

    John Corey

  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Yeah that was the comment I was confused on... I was wondering if they had "plants" in the audience from the lender itself to make sure the house did not go for the starting bid... I don't even know if that is legal or if it is just a crazy thought... I just didn't know if it is even possible that the houses will go for the starting bid.

    I will see soon enough with my own experience I guess :-)

    steph

  • York, PA · Member since 2008 · 227 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    I've been to I don't know how many auctions and I have always wondered about the 'plant' thing. We had a heavy run of sheriff sales here about three years ago due to facility (sewer, water etc) upgrades around York College. A lot of retired types lost their homes. Those auctions were attended by three types of people. The watchers. like juzam said, were the people just coming to see what was going on. The mid level guys like myself who were there to bid on the rehabs and old stuff up to a certain price ceiling (usually 70% of ARV). Then there were the pros. They are the builders, full time investors and professional reps (for attorneys and doctors and lawyers and so on) who bought just about everything. They simply pushed the bid up to where the rest of us stopped bidding. They also were the singular bidders on the high end homes due to the start price. I have seen a few buy-to-own types, but not very many.

    It also depends on attendance. Not so much with real estate as they tend to be well attended around here, but I have been to automotive, heavy equipment and boat auctions where there are three or four bidders for dozens of items up for bid. Those are impossible to predict and you just have to go to every auction you can to get one like that.

    Good Luck,

    Jason

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2008 · 44 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    The opening price is the bank's bid. If noone else bids then it is sold bank to the bank at the opening price.

    The senior lien lender usually will not make any other bids besides the opening price. Junior lienholders do often bid to protect their interest if there is enough equity.

  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Oh! Interesting... I think I understand what you mean. So the "jr. lien holder" being the 2nd mortgage right? (or 3rd?). This is because at an auction the jr. liens get wiped out right?

    That is something I wanted to confirm... the price we are bidding is it right - we don't need to worry about other mortgages hidden somewhere do we? (but I think I do need to be worried about unpaid taxes and other liens or judegments right?)

    thanks,
    steph

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    To summarize a bit.

    A lender in 1st who is foreclosing is only going to enter a bid to make sure the sale prices meets what they have in the property. They could start a bit lower but they normally open at the pay off amount.

    They do not bid higher as they have no reason to do so. Any money above their outstanding lien will go to the next (junior) lien holder. Hence the lender in 1st would not try to increase the bid as it would be their cash going to the next guy in line. Most opening bids will pay off the lender taking the foreclosure action in full. That is all they care about. They generally have no interest in getting the property back if they are a regulated institution like a bank.

    A lender in 2nd might make 1 or more bids to help push up the auction as they stand to loose out if the sale does not go for what they need to cover their position. Granted most lenders in 2nd would have just taken over the 1st rather than let the auction happen if they thought there was room to do so. Or they will just let the auction run its course if the cost of taking over the 1st is too expensive.

    If the foreclosure sale is taking place because a junior lien holder took action expect that the senior lenders do not really care. They are still covered. Only the liens junior to the action have to worry.

    John Corey

  • Member since 2008 · 1 post · 0 votes
    18y

    thats an excellent evaluation.... :D

    I especially like the Ossie and Harriet description.

  • Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 108 posts · 7 votes
    18y

    Steph -- You don't need to worry about "other mortgages" if you are bidding on the trustee's sale of the first. But you had better be absolutely certain that it is a first mortgage at auction. And yes you need to know about prop tax liens, IRS liens, etc.

    Basically you need to be able to do your own title searches and attend the trustee's sale with absolute confidence in your information.

    And out of curiosity - whatever auction you are attending this weekend isn't a trustee's sale:

    2924g. (a) All sales of property under the power of sale contained
    in any deed of trust or mortgage shall be held in the county where
    the property or some part thereof is situated, and shall be made at
    auction, to the highest bidder, between the hours of 9 a.m. and 5
    p.m. on any business day, Monday through Friday.

  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    this is great information guys. OK... today I will try to ask some questions while I'm there... I do want to confirm that

    - These are the trustee's sale of the first
    and your comment swgprop on 2924g...

    Thanks again for all the input - I'll update you guys on the "characters I see" :-)

    steph

  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Hi All,

    Ok so there is high energy at these auctions it seems (at least the guys working it - screaming and pointing at you and running around), there were at least 2-300 people at this one. There seemed to be a lot of couples, and the bids that were being made went up so high I have to assume they were buying to live in - they just couldn't make much flipping and surely not renting going by 2% rule!

    One guy sat next to me (came in about 1/2 hour into it) said he was there "to get a good deal" and asked if there had been any "good deals yet". I told him I didn't know what he thought was a good deal, but I didn't see anything yet that would make any cashflow for renting...

    He said he just takes 1% of the sale price and if he could rent it for that price then it was "a good deal" (he should be thinking 2% right?!)

    I stayed for about 25 houses... they went up by 5K each bid - and they went up fast! Anywhere from 40K to 300K above starting bid.

    At this rate, it doesn't look like I'll get the house I want - not at the price I need.

    I'm not sure if my question came out right - but I asked "I understand Trustee sales are held M-F, so if that is the case what is this considered?" The reply was that they are an "Auction house. They partner with the lenders to try and auction the house"

    REDC ushomeauctions is what I attended - I mean is this a bad thing or a good thing or any comments here?

    I also asked about the liens, etc. He said all sales will have a free and clear title (even if there are liens, back taxes, etc. they will be cleared).

    Interesting...could be fun if you actually win a bid!

    Steph

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    Steph,

    The 1% rule has been used for years. In markets that are appreciating it was common that if you could get a place for 1% then the numbers were close enough as a buy and hold.

    Mike and others have shown that the 1% rule underestimates the true cashflow needs. For many people 1% is good enough.

    Stick to 2% but expect others will not follow that path.

    As to the auction. The answer you were provided gives a clue.

    If the auction is selling on behalf of the lender these are properties that the lender already owns. They are REOs and are long past the foreclosure date. Either the property came back as a foreclosure of a deed in lieu.

    The requirement for the auctions to be during the week and other similar requirements are for a trustee sale or a judicial sale (sheriff's sale). That happens earlier in the process compared to what was being sold at the auction you attended.

    Basically, there are auctions and there are auctions.

    John Corey

  • Member since 2008 · 31 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    got it! Great this is making more and more sense. Thanks everyone for your input!

    steph

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