Leaving multifamily investing- What NNN props do you recommend?

Leaving multifamily investing- What NNN props do you recommend?

Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes

Hey everyone! Im a new member here but after stumbling here for another reason Im hoping some people can help with some suggestions. Will try to keep this brief so let me know if you need any more information. 

I come from multi family (MF) property ownership/management of a few properties of various sizes here in Los Angeles. Im looking to exchange the MF properties over time into STNL properties, perhaps in tax-friendly states. I have a pretty good knowledge of the MF business but admittedly not too much in the general commercial space. 

With that said, is there any "gold standard" for STNL? What kind of properties do MF landlords (who are tired of tenants and toilets) like to exchange into (i.e. properties that are good for new CRE investors)? Drug stores and Walgreens in particular seemed very promising until I quickly realized that rent increases were often flat for decades.

I am having trouble understanding how the relationship between risk vs return actually plays out in real life because cap rates and valuations seem to vary so widely. Unlikely, but is it because many of the properties on loop net are priced in way (high) where the landlord just wants to see if there are any bites vs people who are actually motivated to sell. Are off-market listing more common in commercial properties than in MF? 

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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
6y

Hi Mike,

This is my wheelhouse. I review about 1,000 retail properties  a week nationwide for my clients. Expected returns and risk profiles vary by investor. I generally talk to investors over the phone as it is a lot of information to go over.

I will try to put some info here.

I have many clients that do 1031 exchanges out of CA to buy triple net properties. Typically they have had a big run up on equity and might be getting just a 2 to 3% return. They want to 1031 and go passive with retail and put more of that equity to work. For single tenant net lease the type of tenant available and market cap rates can vary by state and then location (rural, weak suburban, strong suburban, urban core). Unless the investor is local and lives there most of my clients stick to buying in urban core to strong suburban areas.

For tenant type you have credit rated investment grade tenants BBB- or better by Standard and Poor's. Parent corporate guarantee tends to be the strongest and most secure from a  credit standpoint although any tenant can go dark but odds tend to be smaller percentage wise the better the credit rating.

For tenant risk I have my 5 levels.

Strongest to weakest usually:

Investment grade credit parent corporate guarantee.

Subsidiary of investment grade credit.

Large franchisee typically 50 units or greater and long time operator

Small franchisee with one to maybe a few units

No investment grade corporate credit or even a franchisee but a local mom and pop operation. 

STNL 3 million and below about 75% are all cash purchases and maybe 25% financed. 4 to 6 million and up about 75% financed and 25% cash ( the investors even with all cash generally do not like putting into one single property that high of a concentration of cash).

So for example depending on your 1031 proceeds for your first exchange and whether you will add more funds to that can depend on what type of property you can afford. If you had 3 exchanges with say 600k each and you didn't want to put more money into each deal then cap rate would be lower and properties sell much faster and are competing against all cash offers. Type of tenant also more limited to choose from and location.

If your 1031 proceeds each time are 1 million or more then as an example you could look at properties in the 3 million range versus 2 million which can make a big difference as to what is available for location,cap rates, and tenant type. The larger you go up in price the smaller the buyer pool shrinks so can get a little better cap rate and also better loan terms ( more lenders compete for larger loans as it is less to keep track of for servicing volume and locations tend to be stronger for higher priced properties.)

My clients sign exclusives with me because it is a considerable time investment on both sides to work to achieve the common goal of effectively finding the best property in the buyers range to purchase that meets their quality and cash on cash objectives.

The STNL market is fluid and the good properties go fast ( typically in days to 1 week max). Often developers and listing brokerages do not like dealing with new buyers unfamiliar with the process as they tend to believe there will be a high chance of failure if choosing that offer or going to contract. They usually want a buyer broker on the other end guiding the buyer through the process and knowing things are handled properly. The developers are busy building projects and the listing brokers are busy going out to add more inventory and represent more sellers.  With your 1031 exchange a seller will want to know at what STAGE you are at in the process ( List your property for sale, your property is under contract, your property is under contract and due diligence has passed and earnest money has gone non-refundable from your buyer, your property has closed and you are in 45 day ID period already.) Sellers like the last 2 as chances of you having the money to buy are high. The first 2 with one you do not have your property under contract yet and the other the property is under contract but your buyer can still back out of the deal and doesn't have a bunch of non-refundable money they could lose (skin in the game). Sellers have to asses odds when choosing a buyer (do they have a good broker and support system, do they have the funds ready to go, is their proposed loan terms reasonable for the market are they trying a hair brained loan that has a little chance of happening?)

With pharmacies Walgreens almost always have flat rent in the primary period. Some DO have rental increases in the options but more rare. CVS tends to have more rental increases in the option periods but also in the primary term can have rental holidays at the end of the primary lease term with no money coming in (in those cases a rent credit can be given in advance but it can affect financing so have to plan in advance to set up properly with the purchase). A sweet spot can be a Rite Aid with a vintage lease in a good location that Walgreens purchased. With that you might land a slightly higher cap rate with rental increases in the option periods with Walgreens backing the lease. With Rite Aid stand alone  without Walgreens credit they are harder to finance with good terms.

For rental increases Davita or Fresnuis can be good with starting cap rates in the 6's. Most buyers do not hold for more than 5 to 10 years.

I often find the sweet spot is how many years are remaining on the primary term.

Example a newly minted lease of 15 years Davita going for as an example a 5.75 to 6.0 cap rate. The developer usually has legal fees, real estate commissions, short term capital gains and has made little to no cash flow off of the property so wants the lowest cap rate possible.

Conversely a property with say 5 years left on primary is very hard to get a decent loan. There is not enough time for a lender to get comfortable with paydown of the note typically unless a very small loan and a shorter amortization period. Those might sell for in the 7's for cap rate.

The sweet spot is often 8 to 12 years remaining. Here the developer has made some cash flow over the years and is looking at long term capital gains versus short if they do not want to 1031 exchange. They are generally more reasonable on cap rate in the mid to high 6's and then debt as an example currently at about 3.9% fixed  for 7 to 10 years with a 25 to 30 year amortization schedule.

Triple net can be passive and easy to own BUT there is a lot of analysis that goes into selecting the best properties. You can lose money in NNN just like any asset class if tenant is bad, location is poor, lease terms are not optimal, guarantee on lease is weak. Even with a great location sometimes access is bad. Sightlines are not good as property sits in a hole or high on a hill, etc. Parcel layout can also be bad and not have enough parking spaces for the business model.

I understand why you want to get passive. I sold larger apartment buildings before getting into retail over a decade ago. I still do multifamily for bigger properties with larger clients (tens of millions in price and up) but mainly do retail these days. Retail is typically the last stop on the investment train to retirement for many investors. They have a progression based on starting small in early ages with SFR, then smaller multifamily, then larger multifamily or office, then to retail (less headache, more passive). I have some clients that do not have to go that route as they own a business making tons of cash, sold a business, are a high income earner in the tech space, or a doctor, etc. They can usually skip all that other type of investing because they have larger capital to move to commercial right away.

Hope it helps. I can talk about this stuff for months so ask away with your specific questions and I will try to answer.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Ronald RohdePro Member
    Attorney · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes
    6y

    Walgreens or similar properties on long term ground leases or something similar with AA, AAA+ tenants tend to be attractive. Industrial is another alternative.

    Off market listings/transactions are very common. Quite a bit of listings you see on loopnet may be dud's but also may be opportunities. Build relationships with those brokers you see.

  • Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Bjorik Mutize:

    Walgreens or similar properties on long term ground leases or something similar with AA, AAA+ tenants tend to be attractive. Industrial is another alternative.

    Off market listings/transactions are very common. Quite a bit of listings you see on loopnet may be dud's but also may be opportunities. Build relationships with those brokers you see.

     With industrial or properties involving hazardous materials (gas stations, medical offices) is the risk of environmental contamination usually covered by insurance (which the tenant would be paying for)?  

    @Ronald thank you! That’s a really useful website. Really appreciate it 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes
    6y

    @Mike Nas usually. Also a new occupier or owner would conduct something call a phase 1 or phase 2(environmental site assessment).

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    Hi Mike,

    This is my wheelhouse. I review about 1,000 retail properties  a week nationwide for my clients. Expected returns and risk profiles vary by investor. I generally talk to investors over the phone as it is a lot of information to go over.

    I will try to put some info here.

    I have many clients that do 1031 exchanges out of CA to buy triple net properties. Typically they have had a big run up on equity and might be getting just a 2 to 3% return. They want to 1031 and go passive with retail and put more of that equity to work. For single tenant net lease the type of tenant available and market cap rates can vary by state and then location (rural, weak suburban, strong suburban, urban core). Unless the investor is local and lives there most of my clients stick to buying in urban core to strong suburban areas.

    For tenant type you have credit rated investment grade tenants BBB- or better by Standard and Poor's. Parent corporate guarantee tends to be the strongest and most secure from a  credit standpoint although any tenant can go dark but odds tend to be smaller percentage wise the better the credit rating.

    For tenant risk I have my 5 levels.

    Strongest to weakest usually:

    Investment grade credit parent corporate guarantee.

    Subsidiary of investment grade credit.

    Large franchisee typically 50 units or greater and long time operator

    Small franchisee with one to maybe a few units

    No investment grade corporate credit or even a franchisee but a local mom and pop operation. 

    STNL 3 million and below about 75% are all cash purchases and maybe 25% financed. 4 to 6 million and up about 75% financed and 25% cash ( the investors even with all cash generally do not like putting into one single property that high of a concentration of cash).

    So for example depending on your 1031 proceeds for your first exchange and whether you will add more funds to that can depend on what type of property you can afford. If you had 3 exchanges with say 600k each and you didn't want to put more money into each deal then cap rate would be lower and properties sell much faster and are competing against all cash offers. Type of tenant also more limited to choose from and location.

    If your 1031 proceeds each time are 1 million or more then as an example you could look at properties in the 3 million range versus 2 million which can make a big difference as to what is available for location,cap rates, and tenant type. The larger you go up in price the smaller the buyer pool shrinks so can get a little better cap rate and also better loan terms ( more lenders compete for larger loans as it is less to keep track of for servicing volume and locations tend to be stronger for higher priced properties.)

    My clients sign exclusives with me because it is a considerable time investment on both sides to work to achieve the common goal of effectively finding the best property in the buyers range to purchase that meets their quality and cash on cash objectives.

    The STNL market is fluid and the good properties go fast ( typically in days to 1 week max). Often developers and listing brokerages do not like dealing with new buyers unfamiliar with the process as they tend to believe there will be a high chance of failure if choosing that offer or going to contract. They usually want a buyer broker on the other end guiding the buyer through the process and knowing things are handled properly. The developers are busy building projects and the listing brokers are busy going out to add more inventory and represent more sellers.  With your 1031 exchange a seller will want to know at what STAGE you are at in the process ( List your property for sale, your property is under contract, your property is under contract and due diligence has passed and earnest money has gone non-refundable from your buyer, your property has closed and you are in 45 day ID period already.) Sellers like the last 2 as chances of you having the money to buy are high. The first 2 with one you do not have your property under contract yet and the other the property is under contract but your buyer can still back out of the deal and doesn't have a bunch of non-refundable money they could lose (skin in the game). Sellers have to asses odds when choosing a buyer (do they have a good broker and support system, do they have the funds ready to go, is their proposed loan terms reasonable for the market are they trying a hair brained loan that has a little chance of happening?)

    With pharmacies Walgreens almost always have flat rent in the primary period. Some DO have rental increases in the options but more rare. CVS tends to have more rental increases in the option periods but also in the primary term can have rental holidays at the end of the primary lease term with no money coming in (in those cases a rent credit can be given in advance but it can affect financing so have to plan in advance to set up properly with the purchase). A sweet spot can be a Rite Aid with a vintage lease in a good location that Walgreens purchased. With that you might land a slightly higher cap rate with rental increases in the option periods with Walgreens backing the lease. With Rite Aid stand alone  without Walgreens credit they are harder to finance with good terms.

    For rental increases Davita or Fresnuis can be good with starting cap rates in the 6's. Most buyers do not hold for more than 5 to 10 years.

    I often find the sweet spot is how many years are remaining on the primary term.

    Example a newly minted lease of 15 years Davita going for as an example a 5.75 to 6.0 cap rate. The developer usually has legal fees, real estate commissions, short term capital gains and has made little to no cash flow off of the property so wants the lowest cap rate possible.

    Conversely a property with say 5 years left on primary is very hard to get a decent loan. There is not enough time for a lender to get comfortable with paydown of the note typically unless a very small loan and a shorter amortization period. Those might sell for in the 7's for cap rate.

    The sweet spot is often 8 to 12 years remaining. Here the developer has made some cash flow over the years and is looking at long term capital gains versus short if they do not want to 1031 exchange. They are generally more reasonable on cap rate in the mid to high 6's and then debt as an example currently at about 3.9% fixed  for 7 to 10 years with a 25 to 30 year amortization schedule.

    Triple net can be passive and easy to own BUT there is a lot of analysis that goes into selecting the best properties. You can lose money in NNN just like any asset class if tenant is bad, location is poor, lease terms are not optimal, guarantee on lease is weak. Even with a great location sometimes access is bad. Sightlines are not good as property sits in a hole or high on a hill, etc. Parcel layout can also be bad and not have enough parking spaces for the business model.

    I understand why you want to get passive. I sold larger apartment buildings before getting into retail over a decade ago. I still do multifamily for bigger properties with larger clients (tens of millions in price and up) but mainly do retail these days. Retail is typically the last stop on the investment train to retirement for many investors. They have a progression based on starting small in early ages with SFR, then smaller multifamily, then larger multifamily or office, then to retail (less headache, more passive). I have some clients that do not have to go that route as they own a business making tons of cash, sold a business, are a high income earner in the tech space, or a doctor, etc. They can usually skip all that other type of investing because they have larger capital to move to commercial right away.

    Hope it helps. I can talk about this stuff for months so ask away with your specific questions and I will try to answer.

  • Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @ mike nas- environmental insurance is sometimes available for known environmental conditions. Usually depends on financials of insured. Often times, there is a deductible. Also could be exclusion for claims related to development work. 

    There are state brownfield programs that may provide some financial incentives for redeveloping contaminated sites.

  • Rental Property Investor · High Point, NC · Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote
    6y

    @Joel Owens. Excellent write up. Thank You!

  • Developer · Charlottesville, VA · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Mike Nas I like medical and dental and vision (anything healthcare). These are the only true recession and internet resistant. All bets are off in the retail space right now and if you loose a tenant like a Walgreens or CVS or restaurant they can be difficult to fill and expensive to upfit for a new tenant.

  • Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Joel Owens Thank you for that very informative answer. It seems like Im on the right track, but still need to figure out the priorities of all the factors you discussed. 


    As for the 1031 exchange, what is the typical order/sequence of the transaction? I did not want to list my property(s) for sale until I had a target in mind. So I would find one or more suitable NNN properties, get it under contract, and then go fishing for a buyer for my multi-family property. I am more concerned with ultimately finding a suitable target property rather than selling my properties quickly. Is this the correct approach? Sounds like I might have it backwards

  • Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Greg Dickerson:

    @Mike Nas I like medical and dental and vision (anything healthcare). These are the only true recession and internet resistant. All bets are off in the retail space right now and if you loose a tenant like a Walgreens or CVS or restaurant they can be difficult to fill and expensive to upfit for a new tenant.

    How do you manage the environmental/biohazard risk that such a use may present? Is it as simple as getting extra insurance? Just as an example, what if it turns out there was contamination somewhere because the office was careless in how waste was handled? 

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    I don't like DST's except in certain situations.

    The way they are constructed they are front loaded with fees and the passive investor doesn't control the exit. If there is a problem with the property and it needs a cash infusion to re-stabilize the IRS has strict rules on what you can and cannot do with DST's. Often upon exiting a DST they can break even or lose money.

    If someone is worth 5 million and has 2 million 1031 to me I would not want a high concentration of my wealth in something I do not control. If you have say 300k and you can't buy a quality property on your own for 1 million and your net worth is 10 million then plowing 300k into a DST and things go south is not likely to hurt as much.

    I do have a friend that also has his securities license and does raises for DST's as well. They have their place but are not this amazing thing being sold sometimes by those that are selling interests in them and being compensated by the DST for the capital raise. Another time they can work is if you have leftover 1031 funds when buying your replacement property and you do not want to pay boot wit the leftover proceeds.

    If people are worried about the 1031 45 day ID period when your buyer goes hard on their money past DD you can go ahead and look. Sellers generally want to see the buyers property they are selling either closed and proceeds in ID period or their buyer has gone hard with the down payment so odds are high it closes. If it Is just your property is listed for sale or under contract but not past contingency STNL or MTNL sellers will not usually go under contract with you to sell their property because it is a fluid market and they do not want to lose other buyers.

  • Developer · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    We used to have one very active lady on BP who's answer to everything was DSTs. Are you the new industry rep? Your post history indicates that's all you talk about.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    The difference between me and other investment alternatives sometimes is I do not hard sell anyone. I am talking in generalities and not any specific person or situation.

    In fact there are times where I tell investors it sounds like commercial is not right for them due to amount of capital needed, expectation of quality due to price points they can't afford, the yield is not what they imagined. I mention alternatives that might work better for them. 

    Example ( Someone making 70k a year from job or business. They had huge runup in equity gain from SFR bought in last downturn. They have big cash flow with headache and now want to take a little less and go completely passive. Doesn't work that way).

    Conversely I have clients with millions to tens of millions getting 1 to 2% returns and they love getting passive returns in commercial of 5 to 8%. They are already making though 500k to over 1 million a year from the job or business so cash flow is lower down the list. I can still help those like in the example but they can't expect a headache return of SFR in the teens and then drop just 2 to 3% down on cash on cash and land some jewel passive commercial property.

    I also wish those not well versed in a specific asset class would not make sweeping comments. I look at around 1,000 properties a week for clients. I stay busy around the clock. Buyers are gobbling up retail properties like no tomorrow. Those that think otherwise must simply not know the markets very well. Sure there are rural to weak suburban towns where property sits forever but most of the acquisition is happening in states for strong suburban to urban core markets. With properties sitting vacant in those good areas I can look at it and most times spot the issue (bad sightlines, bad access, bad building design, bad parcel layout, stuck behind other buildings, etc.) Clothing stores are getting pounded but that has been the case for about a decade now. Lots of buyers love the idea of going passive. Dealing with residential tenants can get old real quick!  Now if someone chooses to take on mom and pop retail tenants versus strong regional to national tenants then a landlord can have a headache if they do not know what they are doing.

    It can be natural for those owning SFR to get comfortable with multifamily as you are essentially taking a bunch of houses or units into one or multiple buildings and an easy concept for most to grasp. When you get into commercial and retail you really have to have deep knowledge of the asset class and know what you are doing. You mess up and the fudge factor can be heavily amplified.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    "Mike Nas

    As for the 1031 exchange, what is the typical order/sequence of the transaction? I did not want to list my property(s) for sale until I had a target in mind. So I would find one or more suitable NNN properties, get it under contract, and then go fishing for a buyer for my multi-family property. I am more concerned with ultimately finding a suitable target property rather than selling my properties quickly. Is this the correct approach? Sounds like I might have it backwards."

    The STNL and MTNL markets are very fluid. The desirable properties are gone in days to 1 week. The stuff sitting on the market is often nice but overpriced, or junk tenants, mediocre location, etc.

    An owner with a nice product that generates multiple offers in the first week isn't going to typically go to contract with you when the property is not even listed for sale yet or is listed but not under contract. Additionally even if under contract the sellers like to see your buyer has passed due diligence and gone hard with their earnest money being non-refundable and just waiting to close or you are closed and already in the 45 day ID period.

    If you were the seller looking at multiple offers would you want to take a chance on a big maybe? Doubtful

    I already have 4 deals under contract this year and going for more. All my buyers put in offers for the properties I found them that day or the next day. The good stuff doesn't last. Everyone wants the diamonds. A KEY metric I look at with clients is do they communicate quickly, effectively, and are responsive in getting offers back? If they are sluggish I do not want to spend the time it takes to filter through tons of junk properties to find them the diamond only to lose it because they are not responding quick enough to win the deal. It's not about what buyers WISH the markets were. It's about what the markets actually are and what it takes to win the deal. That is the reality of NNN.

    Hope it helps.    

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