First Deal = $1600+ Cash Flow!!

First Deal = $1600+ Cash Flow!!

Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes

Hi! I wrote a post 4 months ago asking what you all would do in our situation -- sell or keep our Seattle house. Several of you commented and it really helped us solidify our decision, so thanks to all who commented! Here is the post for reference: https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

Well, we decided to sell the house and it sold for way over what we expected and we walked away with zero regrets and a huge chunk of money to invest with. Fast forward and we now have a 6 unit townhouse building in Michigan (near where we live now) that cash flows $1600 after all expenses including property management and this is with 5 of the units still at $150-$350 below market rents. Three of the units are 3 bedrooms, 2 half baths + 1 full bath and two of the units are 2 bedrooms, 1 half bath + 1 full bath. 

The property had been on the market for 2 years, but when we ran the numbers it looked like you could cash flow without changing anything, so we couldn't figure out why it was still on the market. The listing agent told us that he gets multiple calls per week about it, but that the seller just will not budge on price. It sounded like people kept offering lower and he kept saying no. 

So, knowing this info and knowing that it would cash flow for us at full price, we made him an offer. We said we would give him 290K (he had it listed at 297K) with 40K down if he would do seller financing. He came back and said yes to seller financing at 5% interest (which we couldn't believe since we heard seller financing is usually a higher interest rate). And then we negotiated a 20 year amortization schedule (and he wanted a 5 year balloon payment).

There were 5 full units and 1 vacant. We did some remodeling in the vacant one (spent about 8K on floors, painting, new vanity in a bathroom, and redid kitchen that we hired out and my husband is a master electrician so he put in new switches and fixed any lighting issues and a couple other little things) and we put it at market rent. Old owner was charging $625 for the 3 bedroom and market rent is $966. We are working on raising rents for the other 5 units over the next few months $25-$50. All of the tenants were on month-to-month and had all been living there at least for 2 years. 

The previous owner mostly took care of the outside, but the interior is pretty dated and there are a lot of little things to do. Our property manager toured each unit with each tenant and asked about any issues. The only big thing was that one tenant had been living with bedbugs for almost 2 years since she moved in. I lost my mind over this because of psychological trauma from having bedbugs in a hotel room when I was in Nepal and I ended up in the hospital, but that's a story for another day haha. Anyway, she said the landlord told her if she called an exterminator, he would evict her. So crazy! She had powders and spray that she was trying to use. Her unit was otherwise very clean and I seriously wanted to cry for her that she had been living with them for so long. Luckily, the exterminator found no evidence of them in any other unit and it was only $980 for the guaranteed treatment. I thought for sure it would be more. Anyway, that was our only big issue coming in and she was so grateful that we were willing to take care of it. 

So, each time someone decides to move out, we will remodel another unit. What I love about seller financing is that we don't have to cash-out refi once we get the appreciation up and are ready to get a mortgage on it to get our cash back out--it's just getting a first mortgage on it at 80% LTV with our credit union. We should be able to get our money back pretty easily between 12-18 months. I love how with commercial, the value of the property goes up when the NOI goes up and the previous landlord had the rents so low, that has been easy to get the NOI up!

So, for now, we are cash flowing $1600 and we expect to be at $1800 cash flow by the end of the year. This is obviously if no huge maintenance issues come up and if someone moves out, the potential for cash flow goes up even more. 

That's the story of my first deal (if you don't include our primary home turned airbnb turned sold for investing)! 

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Rental Property Investor · NJ and PA · Member since 2019 · 206 posts · 105 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

@Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I’d rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn’t been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 😂 

First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

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  • Brooklyn · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 4 votes
    5y

    Great story - thanks for sharing! very encouraging, seems just the right amount of luck and execution on your end. If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to find the "right" first property? I'm just getting into this now and would love to hear more about what your though process was.

  • Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 499 posts · 206 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    It’s very exciting that you got seller financing and such great cash flow. In your cash flow figures are you accounting for repairs and maintenance?

    So apparently, this seller was more concerned about price than anything. Shrewd of you to use that to your advantage in asking for seller financing.

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Nicholas Bilas great question. Prior to selling our Seattle house, we had a HELOC on it sitting there just in case we found a deal. We put an offer on a single family home for a BRRRR that we didn't get, got an offer accepted on a flip and walked away during inspection because of foundation issues, and looked at countless 2-4 unit properties. Our realtor finally asked us if we would consider commercial multi family. I felt a little intimidated, but started searching anyway. I liked the price of this one, so I sent it to my agent and he/we analyzed it to death. He actually said when I first sent it, he really didn't think it would be a good deal and was surprised by the numbers (not exactly sure why—I'll have to ask). I'm really glad all of the other properties we looked into didn't work out! We would have cash flowed 200-300 a month on that single family and made 12K-20K on the flip (depending on so many factors and it would have been our first flip). And, after remodeling one out of 6 units, I'm glad we aren't in the flipping business because it was a bit maddening. Granted, we learned A LOT and the next unit we remodel we know will go much more smoothly. Like Brandon and David always say on the podcast, just doing your first deal, regardless of what it is, is a huge education in itself!!

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Leslie A. yes! Our numbers include everything from insurance to lawn care & snow removal (only $80 a month!!) and $200 a month for maintenance/repairs. We could find that maintenance is more as we move forward. What do you usually budget for this? 

    At first when I read your comment about being shrewd, I thought it was a bad thing...and then I googled. I totally thought it meant something else! Haha.  But, yes, After listening to his agent who was clearly frustrated, I knew it was all about getting (almost) asking price. If the numbers hadn’t worked at 290K, I never would have done it. But, they totally did and that’s why I was so confused and wondering if we were missing something with no one else buying it! 

  • Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 499 posts · 206 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    I think 10% of gross rents. I’ve been out of things for a few years, so I might be remembering incorrectly.

    Yes, I definitely meant shrewd as a compliment. Not like you were being sneaky, just very smart. Like, “You want (close to) full price?” “I’ll pay your full price if you finance it.” Give them a concession, but make them give you a concession.

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I’d rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn’t been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 😂 

  • Realtor · Bellevue, WA · Member since 2019 · 882 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser, $1600 is amazing for your first deal. This is the way to go!

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Sherief Elbassuoni thank you! If we had gone with the deals we almost did, it wouldn’t have been so good. So I’m really happy! 

  • Developer · Danville KY · Member since 2015 · 85 posts · 110 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser very nice! Congratulations!

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Lina Bibikov thank you!

  • Chula Vista, CA · Member since 2017 · 195 posts · 104 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    This is an awesome deal! So what are the gross rents now and what do you hope to eventually get it up to? Other than snow and lawn care, any other landlord expenses, like utilities?

  • Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    Awesome story!!! Looking for my first deal now. Hope to be able to post soon about it.

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    Hopefully soon!!! @thomas mctier

  • Rental Property Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 303 posts · 154 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser hey thanks for sharing your success. What a smart thing to do with seller financing. It’s a win win situation. Very important to not always think about yourself but also the other parties involved. Good luck with future deals!

  • Member since 2019 · 17 posts · 9 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser

    Great job on doing your research and taking that chance! Looks like you scored an awesome deal. Way to go! Keep making those little improvements for your tenants and get those rents up to market level! $$$ 👍

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 63 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser. Congrats on your first deal. I'll say this is really great. I have a few questions though. I'm also planning to get into the multifamily route

    1) Did you say you bought a 6-unit property at $290k? That is really cheap considering where I live (Dallas), you could hardly buy a single decent house at that price. In which city is the property located?

    2) Why would a seller want to do owner finance instead of getting the full price. Is there any advantage to the seller doing this?


    Thanks

    Femi

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2020 · 459 posts · 305 votes
    5y

    @Nikki Closser that’s awesome, love the details.

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y
  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Stephen DeThample it’s always so helpful for me when people share details, so I’m hopefully helping someone else :)

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Femi Ibrahim Michigan totally varies in price from city to city. Like in Ann Arbor, I just saw a duplex listed for 1.5 million. Smaller towns are going to be much cheaper for the most part. Have you looked outside of Dallas in smaller towns or even rural areas? 

    As for seller financing, he had it listed at 297K for two years. It sounds like people kept offering less and he didn’t want less. So, the benefit to him is that he got (almost) asking price at 290K. He was so ready to be done with it, so this gave him what he wanted in the end, which was to sell at the price he wanted. 

  • Rental Property Investor · NJ and PA · Member since 2019 · 206 posts · 105 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

    @Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I’d rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn’t been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 😂 

    First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

    I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

  • Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 112 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Gary Parilis thanks for the advice!

  • Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 499 posts · 206 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Gary Parilis:
    Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

    @Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I’d rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn’t been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 😂 

    First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

    I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

     You have to get a dollar figure from somewhere. Getting the records of the previous owner would be one way and a percentage would be another way. What do you suggest?  Pulling a figure from the air?  

  • Rental Property Investor · NJ and PA · Member since 2019 · 206 posts · 105 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Leslie A.:
    Originally posted by @Gary Parilis:
    Originally posted by @Nikki Closser:

    @Leslie A. I need to research that a bit more. I had 5% of gross rents down, but I’d rather be conservative with it. And I never would have known about seller financing if it hadn’t been for listening to so many BP podcast episodes! 😂 

    First, congratulations on your success by being creative where nobody else could see a good deal at approximately asking price. What a great accomplishment!

    I often see people using a percentage of the gross rents as an estimate for repairs & maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Better to just estimate a dollar figure. If you have two similar properties and one has higher rents than the other, is there a difference in repair costs? In fact, the more you've updated a property, the more you collect and the less is left to repair. If you buy a property in barely rentable condition and charge $600 rent, then you update it significantly and then charge $800 rent, should your estimate for repair costs increase or decrease? Or for that matter, should repairs be the same percentage of rent in Seattle as in Michigan? I don't have a good number to tell you to estimate (it depends on the condition, how may things can go wrongs etc.), but it shouldn't be a percentage of the rent. 

     You have to get a dollar figure from somewhere. Getting the records of the previous owner would be one way and a percentage would be another way. What do you suggest?  Pulling a figure from the air?  

    Records of the previous owner is a good idea if you can get it. Otherwise, it's just a matter of experience. If you have a general idea what percentage is typical with other properties in a particular market, that's a reasonable place to start, but then you still have to adjust for the condition of the property (and other attributes such as how many bathrooms). A general rule of thumb I was once given by an agent (in a market where buildings tend to be 100 years old) is $1300 for SFH, $2300 for duplex, $3050 for triplex, $3800 for 4-plex, and $750 for each add'l unit -- annually. Personally, I think these are high, but I start by thinking about these numbers and then adjust downward according to the condition and thinking about of what things might go wrong, or what things have already been replaced or repaired. There's no simple answer, but just using a blanket percentage will result in the wrong number more often than not.

  • Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    That's awesome! I live in Michigan and it's good to hear people are finding nice deals!

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