Would you hold or sell this investment? Seeking advice

Would you hold or sell this investment? Seeking advice

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 10 votes

I have a townhouse condo that I have owned for 11 years. It was my primary residence until I moved out of state 4 years ago. For the past 4 years, it has been a rental property that has served me well on a cash flow basis since moving; however, recently the market has demonstrated a notable jump in appreciation, specifically in the complex that this condo is located and I stand to make a nice return. I am trying to decide whether it makes more sense for me to continue collecting the cash flow or cash out on the appreciation and purchase other investments. I currently do not have other RE investments. I, however, work in real estate and plan to begin using BRRRR or flipping strategies to grow my wealth. Here are some details and I would love to hear opinions from others on whether you would continue holding or cash out.

I purchased the home for $184,000 in 2008 with $1,000 of my own money. I paid an FHA mortgage for 8 years before moving. While living in the home, I made $25,000 worth of upgrades so I calculate that I have invested $26,000 plus the interest, mortgage insurance, taxes, and HOA fees I paid while living in the home.

I have had tenants in the home for the past 4 years with only a two week vacancy. The rent is $1,395 per month and my expenses are $1,200 so my cash flow is $195 per month or $2,340 per year and I have had minimal maintenance costs in the past 4 years, totaling around $1,000. So in 4 years, my cash flow has been appx. $8,360, which I feel is a great return that is generally 8% to 9%.

Based on current market conditions, I believe that I can sell for a minimum of $225,000, and I do not anticipate such accelerated growth in the next 5 years. My remaining mortgage is $148,000. My closing costs will be very low as I will not need to hire a real estate broker so I stand to cash out with roughly $75,000. This is very enticing to me, but so is the return I am receiving on the property.

I feel the $75,000 can be employed to drive my new investment strategies as this home was never intended to be used as a rental until I moved, and now I have bigger ideas on how I would like to grow my investment portfolio.

What would you do if this was your investment? Thanks for your input!

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Whitney HuttenPro Member
Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Paul Hansen $2340 on $225K investment is 1.04% COC return annually. If you took that same equity into a market/property where you could get 8% COC, now you are getting $500 mth or $6k a year. If 12%, now you are getting $750 mth or $9K a year. OR you BRRRR and supercharge your returns or even get an infinite return (but you have to solve some problems for people ;).

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  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen $2340 on $225K investment is 1.04% COC return annually. If you took that same equity into a market/property where you could get 8% COC, now you are getting $500 mth or $6k a year. If 12%, now you are getting $750 mth or $9K a year. OR you BRRRR and supercharge your returns or even get an infinite return (but you have to solve some problems for people ;).

  • Real Estate Agent · Firestone, CO · Member since 2018 · 124 posts · 115 votes
    6y

    I am going through something similar. I had a property that was my personal resident that turned into a rental. I am leaning towards selling because the profits will allow to access more than one property depending on the market I move to. The appreciate many not be as high, but the returns go up massively. It also cuts down on the risk as all your eggs are not in one basket. I know vacancy has not been an issue for you but even a month of that eliminates almost a year's worth of work. Similar to what @Whitney Hutten said if you use BRRRR the returns are endless and it sounds like you are ready to scale up your investment game. Best of luck with your decision!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 10 votes
    6y
  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen . Gotcha! COC is 9% then, BUT your return on equity is $2340 / $75000... 3.12%. You could definitely do better :)

  • Investor · New York & TN · Member since 2019 · 325 posts · 219 votes
    6y

    A lot of people made a lot of money buying and flipping etc. I on the other hand am not buyer/seller or buyer/flipper. I'm a buyer/keeper. 

    What type of person a re you? I think this is what you need to know.

    The only time I sell, is when it makes more sense to sell a smaller property with equity and buy a larger property (using a 1031 exchange to avoid capital gains tax). My guess is you're now living in NY while your condo is out of state? I would suggest selling and buying something closer, easier to manage as well, but that might be difficult to do if it means investing in NYC. 

    You could however find good investment properties in Harlem and NYC suburbs. I own a condo in Halrem, I love it. I also have plenty of multifamily investments in westchester and dutchess counties. 

    Good luck.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen

    Calculate the Internal Rate of Return, or IRR. That calculation best captures your return with a time factor baked into it. I'd choose a time discount rate of something around 8% in the calculations. What you may see is that your IRR maxes out after a time period and that if the rents really aren't going up that much but home prices are, might be better to sell.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Peter Nikic - thank you! I am glad you reminded me to think of 1031. Arizona is of interest to me because I know the area and state very well having lived there 30+ years and have most of my network there; however, I am also interested in scaling up in emerging areas (Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc.), and I see myself doing well with BRRRR type strategies, possibly flipping in my off-seasons. I live in NYC now where I frequently work with investors as a real estate broker. I know and understand the NYC strategies; however, these are not investments I see fitting into my strategy for many reasons.

  • Scott WolfPro Member
    Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 956 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen, you could always 1031 exchange into another rental property or do a cash-out refi and use the money that way.  Either way, these are good problems to have!

  • Jeremy TaggartBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 850 posts · 646 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen I think the equity could probably be utilized better in a more cash flow friendly area. Probably look into 1031 since you just missed the sell tax free if you lived there 2 of the last 5 years. 

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  • Auburn NY · Member since 2019 · 97 posts · 56 votes
    6y

    You can get much better returns in rei  

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Jeremy Taggart That was weighing heavily on my decision to sell or renew my tenant’s lease last year and, in hindsight, selling was probably wiser. 1031 exchanges get stressful if/when you can’t find the right deal and I have only worked on other investor’s 1031s as a broker. Have you had experience with reverse property identification in a 1031?

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen, I think what you're referring to is "reverse exchange".  The statutory order of a 1031 exchange requires that you not take title to your new property before you close the sale of your old property.  In a reverse exchange this order is retained by your qualified intermediary for the 1031 taking title to the new property and holding the property in your control and use until you have closed the sale of your old property (maximum of 180 days to fall in the IRS safe harbor). 

    The problems with reverse exchanges are that they are a little more complicated and expensive.  And they take a portfolio financing product.  Other than that if you're sheltering more than $40K - $50K of gain they can be cost effective.

    What is far cheaper is still a regular exchange.  And there are things you can do to mitigate some of that timing angst of the exchange.

    1. Identify and go into contract for your new property even before your old property closes.  The law requires that you close your sale before you close your purchase.  But going into contract on your purchase is fine.  You can use contingencies if the seller will allow.  Or you could sell your old property contingent on finding an appropriate new one.

    Additional earnest money has also bought a lot of good will and extended closings in the past.  And don't forget that if you add a normal closing of 45-60 days for your sale that you actually have 3.5 - 4 months to simply find your potential replacements.  And then you could add time onto that for actually closing.  Although I'd still always recommend that you actually get your new property under contract during the 45 day period.

    Passive fractional products that move a little more slowly can also be a hedge against something bad happening during the process.  And finally, There's no penalty is starting but not completing a 1031 exchange.  So a fee to attempt the 1031 is al the additional risk.  You don't have to take a bad deal just to complete a 1031.  You pay the tax and congratulate yourself that no one ever went broke paying tax on profit :)

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  • Real Estate Agent · McAllen Texas · Member since 2018 · 188 posts · 186 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen, I think @Whitney Hutten seems to make the most compelling argument from a mathematical standpoint. I’ll try to make a similar argument from a psychological standpoint by asking a different question.

    If you had $75,000, would you buy this property in its present location and all other variables being the same for $225,000? If you wouldn’t, then I would absolutely sell it because that’s essentially what you are doing.

    It sounds like you might want to sell it and take your money elsewhere so I would pull the trigger. Great problem to have and best of luck!

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen

    Id sell. First I'd find a property preferrably a 2-4plex . Id stay away from anything with an HOA.

    I have done exactly as @Dave Foster recommended above and its worked out multiple times.

  • Jeremy TaggartBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 850 posts · 646 votes
    6y

    @Paul Hansen No I haven't personally. But yeah you are right they are tricky with the whole timing aspect thrown in. 

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  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Boone Tyson thank you. That way of looking at it definitely helped. 

    @Dave Foster Excellent information, I appreciate it!

    Thank you everyone, this has been very helpful!

  • Rental Property Investor · Klamath Falls, OR · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 213 votes
    6y

    In my own experience finding a property first and then making an offer on something else contingent on the sale of the first house is the easiest route. I did this in 2017, and found myself with two great properties that I had to choose between. The biggest lesson I learned is that you need good powers of persuasion to convince a seller to take your contingent offer over another one. In my case, I was willing to pay $5000 more than other buyers if they'd work with me on the exchange. Also, the selling realtor wrote up a letter detailing the time on market of homes like mine. My home sold in a week and it took 3 months to close out the whole exchange. Best of luck and enjoy the process. My advice is definitely to sell and redeploy your capital. 

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