Seller Financing Opportunity

Seller Financing Opportunity

Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
Ok, so I'm definitely a newbie at this, and am sure that I've got a bunch of stuff in here that'll reflect my experience level. I apologize ahead of time if some of my questions sound dumb. So here's my situation: My parents both retired this year, and have decided that they're going to move to Alaska in the late spring of next year. They own their current house (in Columbus, OH) free-and-clear, and were going to list their home for $90K, however they were going to allow me to purchase it for $80K. I told them that I might be interested in buying it as a rental. My wife and I took a little time to think it over, and in that time, they contacted 5 or 6 real estate agents. ALL of these agents told them that they had DRASTICALLY undervalued the house. All of the agents told them that the house could be sold for anywhere between $120-135K, due to all the updates and they had done, and some of the amenities that none of the other homes in their neighborhood have to offer! One agent told them that they could sell it in two weeks @ $130K. Needless to say, my parents were extremely happy to hear this! But now this brings about my dilema... Now, my stepmother is STUCK on the idea that their house is worth $40k more than they had thought (understandably so, I suppose) I realize that I won't be able to get the house for $80k now, and that's fine. Now, I've been trying to put together a seller financing proposal to present to them that'll make sense. Originally, I was wanting to keep the purchase price down around $85K, and give them a larger interest rate (7.5-8.5%) with a 5 or 6 year balloon, in order to make up some of the difference. My reasoning behind this (although I'm not sure if I'm correct or not) was for a couple reasons: 1) It would (theoretically) keep my property taxes down. 2) It would (also theoretically) safeguard me against a market downturn, as I would have a lower principle balance at the time of refinance. One of the down-sides to this, I found, is that the interest that I pay to them would need to be taxed as income, as long as I wanted to claim the interest as deductible on my taxes. Then, (coincidentally enough) I was at work listening to a BP podcast, and the guest said something that made complete sense when I heard it. Lets say I give them a price that's closer to what they would actually walk away with through a traditional sale...but don't give them any interest? That way, they'll still get the same amount every month...but since the entire payment would be going toward the principle, they wouldn't need to have it taxed as income, and I would be paying my principle down substantially before the balloon payment. So, come refi time, I should still be pretty well protected against a possible down-market. Any input on either of these scenarios would be greatly appreciated. Any other options that I might be overlooking? Anything else I'd need to elaborate upon? Thanks!
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Remington LymanBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y

@Geoffrey Fellner It sounds like it will come down to what your parents want to do. When I am trying to buy a house off-market the first thing I do is identify what the seller wants to do. If your goals do not align then you should move onto the next deal.

If they do want to sell for a market price, I would try to negotiate 6% off of the purchase price they would get selling it on the market. That $130,000 includes a 6% commission to the sales agents. If they sell this directly to you, they should be okay selling at $122,200 (the market value without the commission).

If they do sell to you at $80,000 and it is really worth $130,000 then I would sell it immediately and take the $40,000 capital gains you get from the sale and 1031 it into a small multifamily property in Columbus.

*This is not legal or tax advice as I am not a lawyer or CPA*

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  • Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner Second scenario would be best for them. What do you think you can rent the house for? And what would your payment to them be? Need to figure out your spread to see if it makes sense.

  • Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Addison Good

    Low-end rent would be $850, so that’s what I was basing my numbers on. That’d be almost exactly $150/mo cash flow

  • Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 776 votes
    6y

    Are you accounting for any expenses? I don't see this property working out without a lower purchase price or extended financing period.

  • Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Frank Geiger

    Well, as it’s my parents’ home, I know for a fact that a lot of the common expenses shouldn’t be a concern for a number of years.

    - new furnace & A/C in 2016

    - new water heater in 2016

    - new roof in 2015

    - upstairs bathroom remodeled in 2017

    - kitchen remodeled in 2017

    - foundation/drainage issues remediated in 2016

    - panel updated in 2016

    I realize that there is no way to guarantee that no issues will arise in the future, but this is about as close as you can get. They were absolutely meticulous with their upkeep on this house.

    Also, I said that “low-end” rent would be around $850/mo. I can legitimately expect to see around 1,000-1,100/mo based on comps. As of right now, I have a tenant lined up at $950/mo. (As their move is still so far away, I didn’t want to bank on this, though) I just want to go with the worst-case scenario to see if it would still make sense. You’re saying no?

    .

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner It sounds like it will come down to what your parents want to do. When I am trying to buy a house off-market the first thing I do is identify what the seller wants to do. If your goals do not align then you should move onto the next deal.

    If they do want to sell for a market price, I would try to negotiate 6% off of the purchase price they would get selling it on the market. That $130,000 includes a 6% commission to the sales agents. If they sell this directly to you, they should be okay selling at $122,200 (the market value without the commission).

    If they do sell to you at $80,000 and it is really worth $130,000 then I would sell it immediately and take the $40,000 capital gains you get from the sale and 1031 it into a small multifamily property in Columbus.

    *This is not legal or tax advice as I am not a lawyer or CPA*

  • Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 776 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner must of missed the "low-end" comment. I am not saying not to do it. You may just need to structure it in a way that makes sense. I think this is a perfect seller finance opportunity. 

    Not sure what your long term strategy is. But if you plan to hold 30 years, I would still account for some repairs and CAPEX. Sometimes you'll hear from tenants every other month about some small repair. Other times, you won't hear from them in a year and then they move out and you have to fix some flooring or something. Things happen.

  • Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Frank Geiger

    Sorry, I wasn’t trying to come across as dismissive...

    Like I said, I’m a definite newbie, and all input is highly appreciated!

    Ideally, this would be a long-term but and hold, as long as it still makes sense to do so. I am a bit nervous about buying with a downswing looming, and am trying to figure out a way to get the seller what they want AND protect myself from getting buried when balloon time comes.

  • Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 776 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner didn't take it that way. Did your parents say they wanted a balloon or are you suggesting that? They may hold it for longer. The more important thing is that you can qualify for a mortgage in a few years. If the property is worth 130k today, I doubt you will feel much of a downside.  It can drop 20% and you only lose 26k in equity (which won't matter if you hold). 

  • Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Frank Geiger

    Also, you said “extended finance”

    How long?

    What I was thinking was this:

    They were going to discount their price for me from 90k to 80k, which amounts to 88.9% of their asking price. If it could sell for 130K, that would equate to about $115,500. If they were to sell it at $130K, they’d be looking at $8,500 in agent commissions (7% on the first $100K, and 5% on the remaining $30K). This would bring the total down to $121,500. Also, there are a few minor repairs that they are wanting to do in order to get max-value from their sale. (Finish off the last room in the basement, replace a couple door casements on the garage, and some paint). These are a total of around $2k for materials and labor. This is work that they won’t need to perform if they sell to me, so I’ll take that off of their total as well...bringing their walk-away total to $119,500

    So, my goal with seller financing would be to bring the amount that they’d walk away with somewhere in between those two.

    **This also brings up another question that I have. Would closing costs still remain roughly the same with both methods? From my research, closing costs on a conventional sale in Ohio range from around 1.49-3.0% of the sale price. Aside from inspections and such, are there any other closing costs that wouldn’t be a factor in this deal?

    So, my thinking is this:

    If I can get them to agree to the mid-point of those to numbers ($117,500)... I can make principle-only payments of $550 for 6 years. That would be $39,600 paid to them toward their price, and it would bring my balance down to just under $80K at the time of refinancing.

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 874 posts · 355 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner are you putting a downpayment?

  • Contractor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Guifre Mora

    $3-5K

  • Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2019 · 264 posts · 279 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner I know you love your parents and they love you but what happens in 12 months and they decide that Alaska is not for them or a major medical issue causes a major uptick in there expenses. Doing business with family can bring a lot of heartaches and headaches. If you go thru with this just make sure you have a strong exit strategy. You only have one set of parents that can’t be replaced. Investment properties are great but don’t bet your family on it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    It sounds like your deal

    Sucks to me I would stop trying to figure it out . Not nearly enough cash flow to bother with

  • Rental Property Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 38 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner

    You're absolutely thinking through this the right way. If you can give them a price they are happy with, try to control the terms so that the cash flow will work for you. 0% owner finance is a stellar deal if you are cash flow positive... it would be hard to mess this deal up in my opinion. Just the cheaper your payment here, the better for you for an ROI perspective. Any way you can get your payment down is good for you so if your parents are good with 20 year note vs 15 that's better. Or 30 year is better than 20... so long as the balloon remains constant. If they say they will do 30 years but want the balloon in half the time, you can decide if that's worth it. At any rate, the longer the balloon and longer the payment period / installment amount - the better off you will be... but it obviously has to work for them.

    You have a good grasp on this. Trust yourself and go make the deal a win - win for both of you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 76 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner I guess it comes down to what type of situation your parents are in. Are they trying to “help you out” if not I’m sure they wouldn’t appreciate getting zero percent on their money for years or selling there property $40k under market. If they can really sell the house for $130k and reinvest those funds somewhere else then the time value of money makes that option way better for them then giving it to you at zero present. And seller financing to you at a much lower then market value isn’t really a great deal from them either. Either way this is not really good for them. If its family so they are trying to help you at their own sacrifice that’s cool but this is not really doing anything for them in either scenario. If they are willing to help you I would say let them sell the house and lend you the money at a decent rate to do some deals but I don’t see this seller Financing being a win win. And don’t get me wrong I love seller financing and half of my rental portfolio is seller financed, I just don’t see it working out great for both of you with these numbers. Good luck! 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Longmeadow, MA · Member since 2019 · 154 posts · 64 votes
    6y

    @Geoffrey Fellner. Not sure I follow in how it’ll lower property taxes. You just need to find the sweet spot # that works for both of you. Run it through the brrrr or rental calculator. Do some research on installment sales on irs website and educate your parents that you could save thousands in taxes via installment sales aka seller financing. Just make sure you offer then a high enough interest rate for stated interest (see irs website). If interest rate is too low they will lose their tax favored income classification.

    Good luck

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