Would an incredibly steep driveway scare you away from a rental?

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Would an incredibly steep driveway scare you away from a rental?

Andrew P.
GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes

I'm under contract on a local house that I plan to turn into a legal duplex.  It's 3/2 up and possibly 2/2 or 3/2 down.  Deals are hard to come by in my market and this is at a good price and a good cash flow.  The problem is the crazy steep driveway.  It's probably a 20-25% grade in areas.  This is not very common in my area either.  I'm concerned even at decent rents ($900/month per unit when comps are 1000-1150) that I am going to have a hard time finding tenants who want to live on Mount Crumpit as my wife calls it.  Anyone have any experience or advice in this area?

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Alvin Sylvain
Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 466 posts · 471 votes
7y

I have no experience in this area, but from your picture, it doesn't look all that bad.

I think the most important thing here is, is there level space enough for all expected cars once you get to the top of that hill? I'm not so concerned about people getting their cars up the hill -- cars these days are fairly powerful -- but I would be worried if somebody needed to park on the hill. There is no curb to turn the wheels into, and if the parking brake fails (or they neglect to activate it), odds are good the vehicle is rolling downhill. I don't need to say, that would be very bad.

But that's nothing to worry about if every tenant, and all their guests, have plenty of level space at the top (or the bottom) to park.

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  • Alvin Sylvain
    Los Angeles · Member since 2018 · 466 posts · 471 votes
    7y

    I have no experience in this area, but from your picture, it doesn't look all that bad.

    I think the most important thing here is, is there level space enough for all expected cars once you get to the top of that hill? I'm not so concerned about people getting their cars up the hill -- cars these days are fairly powerful -- but I would be worried if somebody needed to park on the hill. There is no curb to turn the wheels into, and if the parking brake fails (or they neglect to activate it), odds are good the vehicle is rolling downhill. I don't need to say, that would be very bad.

    But that's nothing to worry about if every tenant, and all their guests, have plenty of level space at the top (or the bottom) to park.

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    Yeah, it is deceptively steep.  I think I have enough room to create additional parking up top.  Was just wondering if anyone in this situation before noticed a problem with getting tenants due to the slope.  Thanks!

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  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Andrew P. If people have to park on that slope it may be an issue for tenants, but if there is adequate flat space at the top of the driveway for them to park I don't think it will be a big deal as long as the units are in good shape, etc.. 

    Do you have room in your budget to repave the steep part of the driveway? I would definitely do that.

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    @Michael Noto Yes I definitely wouldn't have them park on the slope.  I can make two separate areas for two cars up top and there is space for 2-3 cars on the street for visitors.  The only downside would be there is no turnaround so they will have to back down the hill.  I am even trying to negotiate an easement with the neighboring rental owner so we can use his driveway and extend it over into this one.

    Pending the septic inspection today I am going to ask them for some concessions in price that should cover the repaving.  Overall the house is in decent shape.  The lot sucks though...

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  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Andrew P. Not a good thing if tenants have to back down that driveway to exit the property in my experience. People will be turned off by that.

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  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    On the left side of the house , dig out the dirt along the foundation to make more parking . You may have to build a retaining wall .  I cant see from the picture , but you may be able to do the same in the front also . Extra dirt goes on hill in front . 

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    If you can make it so there is room to turn around at the top, it should be good.  If you are going to repave the driveway later, it would cost more, but what about a gentler slope at an angle across the lower half of the front lawn (below where the trees are, going from the bottom right where the grade is less steep up to the top of the current driveway where the dark patch is?

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    If its not being sold to homeowner EVER  then if your in a market were rentals are not plentiful and your under market rent then. probably not a big deal.. although I think you take on some liability.. tenants don't have the best cars and I can see one rolling down the hill.. what about snow.. 

    Now in Birmingham were i have worked over the years these are quite common both positive grade and negative grade. 

    backing down is going to be a major issue.. I would want to get a screaming deal on this one personally

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    @Matthew Paul Yeah, I was hoping to dig that area out and have room for two cars there.

    @Jay Hinrichs  I'm definitely looking at it as a buy and hold long term.  It was on the market for 14 months last time it was listed from March 2015 to May 2016 and sold for $100k.  They listed for $160k dropped to $155k.  I have it under contract at $142k but I'm going to go back and ask for another $10k or so I think.  The numbers work at $142k with $950 per unit which is under market for the area but again the lot may kill it.  Comps in the neighborhood for 3/2 no basement with normal lots are around $160k-180k

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrew P.:

    @Matthew Paul Yeah, I was hoping to dig that area out and have room for two cars there.

    @Jay Hinrichs  I'm definitely looking at it as a buy and hold long term.  It was on the market for 14 months last time it was listed from March 2015 to May 2016 and sold for $100k.  They listed for $160k dropped to $155k.  I have it under contract at $142k but I'm going to go back and ask for another $10k or so I think.  The numbers work at $142k with $950 per unit which is under market for the area but again the lot may kill it.  Comps in the neighborhood for 3/2 no basement with normal lots are around $160k-180k

    cant use comps for normal lots with this one.. apples and oranges so long as you know U do not have a very liquid investment unless you deeply discount it.. then you have all the facts.. I Know if it looks this steep in pictures its probably about as steep as a cows face.

    no way to get up or down it if it snows. and walking on it will be a chore.. Hopefully your tenants will be fit :) 

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    Yeah, the regular lot comps are just me trying to get some frame of reference.  I'm sure the lot knocks $25-30k or so off the comps.  The good thing is that we only get maybe one snow a year here in the metro Atlanta area.  For those cases I would advise them to use the street parking and walk up the steps and pathway built into the yard.  It's definitely going to be a challenge but the main pro for my purposes is that it is 13 minutes from my house and would be my first rental.  

    I'll spend about $25k building out the basement and other property maintenance but using 5% Vac 10% Repairs 6% capex and maintaining it myself I'm looking at $524/month cashflow and 11.44% COC ROI.

    I'd be happy to hold it 10 years at that and either pay it off or sell it for what I paid for it.

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  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    Taking the trash cans up and down that drive would suck .  

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Taking the trash cans up and down that drive would suck .  

    as will trying to moving dirt   but if the OP understands all this and only lives 10 minutes away and can make money with under market rents then probably OK I guess.. I would not want to take it on.

    I bought one foreclosure in Portlandia that had a very steep driveway it cost me my profit and was way hard to sell. but that was a retail at 250k.. not a rental.  and like I said in B ham this is common.. so tenants learn to deal with it.. 

    Also I would make sure the duplex can really be permitted that's a SFR why does one think they can convert to duplex.. and whats that going to cost ??

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Taking the trash cans up and down that drive would suck .  

    Yeah not going to deny that, it will certainly be a chore.

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Taking the trash cans up and down that drive would suck .  

    as will trying to moving dirt   but if the OP understands all this and only lives 10 minutes away and can make money with under market rents then probably OK I guess.. I would not want to take it on.

    I bought one foreclosure in Portlandia that had a very steep driveway it cost me my profit and was way hard to sell. but that was a retail at 250k.. not a rental.  and like I said in B ham this is common.. so tenants learn to deal with it.. 

    Also I would make sure the duplex can really be permitted that's a SFR why does one think they can convert to duplex.. and whats that going to cost ??

    It's definitely a risk. Just trying to bounce it off the forum and see what you guys thought. I've taken 4-5 different people over there and some have said run and others have said tenants won't care as much. Most of this hinges on the septic inspection this morning. If the tank isn't large enough to handle the additional bathrooms, kitchen, laundry then I'll walk. If the field lines or tank are under the parking areas same thing. In response to zoning it is zoned R3 residential in Forsyth County GA which allows for Duplex. No HOA.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrew P.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Taking the trash cans up and down that drive would suck .  

    as will trying to moving dirt   but if the OP understands all this and only lives 10 minutes away and can make money with under market rents then probably OK I guess.. I would not want to take it on.

    I bought one foreclosure in Portlandia that had a very steep driveway it cost me my profit and was way hard to sell. but that was a retail at 250k.. not a rental.  and like I said in B ham this is common.. so tenants learn to deal with it.. 

    Also I would make sure the duplex can really be permitted that's a SFR why does one think they can convert to duplex.. and whats that going to cost ??

    It's definitely a risk. Just trying to bounce it off the forum and see what you guys thought. I've taken 4-5 different people over there and some have said run and others have said tenants won't care as much. Most of this hinges on the septic inspection this morning. If the tank isn't large enough to handle the additional bathrooms, kitchen, laundry then I'll walk. If the field lines or tank are under the parking areas same thing. In response to zoning it is zoned R3 residential in Forsyth County GA which allows for Duplex. No HOA.

    a septic system put in for an SFR would be a concern.. and especially on that hillside.. were is your replacement field if your current field fails.. and tanks are generally 1200 gallons.. so I guess you will see how that plays out.. the septic issue would be a greater long term concern if I was a buyer.. renters are H###LL on throwing stuff in the toilet and down the drains.. :)

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  • Kyle Ward
    Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Factor in cost to re-do the drive at an angle or with a single switchback (if possible). Use that to adjust your offer. Knowing this would shy anyone who has experienced a steep drive especially when it's not in the middle of SanFrancisco. I see it as a possible value add, right? Which would just mean consider it financially up front.

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  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    7y
    Hi Andrew,
    1. I like the house as it is pictured. I think the privacy from the road due to the elevation could be a draw for certain tenants. Read that possible longer term tenants than other dwellings.
    2. As an owner I would be concerned about ice/snow and tenants cars sliding down being damaged or damaging a passing car. Read that potential Lawsuits.
    3. The broken section of concrete nearest the road looks kind of downscale, and it's the first thing a potential renter will see. Read that curb appeal issue.

    Just my thoughts.

    Good Luck!

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  • Andrew P.
    OP
    GA · Member since 2017 · 35 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    Thanks all, unfortunately the septic may be a deal killer on this one.  The tank is only 1,000 gallons so it is probably not going to support the build out.  Looking into my options here.

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  • Ludmila M.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 110 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    Hi @Andrew P.,

    I have a rental almost exactly like this, and it is in the same county as this house. If your septic situation is not an issue, let me know and I'll be happy to share my experience with renting and maintenance. 

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