Seller lied during negotiation - Michigan

Seller lied during negotiation - Michigan

Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes

Hey Guys,

After researching real estate for a few years now I finally I bought my first home. Its going to work great because I am going to use it as a vacation rental while I work away from home and use it the rest of the year. I believe its in a really good area to vacation since I visit here for fun. If all does well, I will make it a year around vacation rental since it’s in a solid area to vacation.

Unfortunately I am having issues with the last homeowner. Long story short, in the inspection period, I noticed that the the bed was against the wall during the pictures in the master bedroom for the internet. When I showed up the bed had been moved in front of the glass door wall. The inspectors were not allowed to move the bed. So I asked my real estate agent to ask the selling party why the bed was moved and if there was anything wrong with the glass door wall. They said the door worked perfectly fine.

When we wrote up the deal, we put 500 dollars into escrow in case there was issues between closing and when I moved in. We did it over the phone since I lived 4 hours away from the house.

After I moved in, I discovered that I was lied to about the door. The door is splitting at the bottom and also bulging. The door is caving into the seal and needs a ton of force to open. The door is not useable and needs to be replaced. This the reason why they put the bed in front of the glass door wall. After talking to contractors and my dad, who is also a contractor, we came up that it would cost between 750 and 900 dollars to replace. There was already around 4500 dollars worth of work. I was not expecting another grand. 

I also found my fence collapsing into the neighbors yard, a burnt couch and they decided to use my property as a trash pit between the last time I seen the property and when I moved in.

So after months of back and fourth between my agent, I finally got to talk to the sellers broker. He basically told me I was out of luck on the door wall because we did not ask the last home owners to move the bed. It didn’t matter that the seller lied to me about the door wall being broke. He told me I could take it to court if I would like but I would probably loose.

Does anyone know if this is true about the fact the last home owner hid evidence that the door was broken and lied to me that is worked fine? I was thinking I could get the 500 bucks to fix it since she did not disclose the truth about the door being broken.

Also, there was a chair attached to a structure attached to two trees. They took the chair but left me the structure between the two trees. Also, there was a structure in the back yard on a deck. Again, they took the structure but left me the deck in a wierd place.. I would have thought there were part of the house. Anyone know the rules on that??

Any help on these issues would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y

You need to read the sale documents.  Does it say you are taking as is where is?  There is usually a clause that says you are not relying on any oral representations of seller.  You need to be firm when you buy a house and have it inspected.  They either comply with the inspection or you walk.  You don't get to go around and find problems then ask to have the seller pay for them after the sale, it must be before.  Learn your lesson and move one.  Be glad this lesson only cost you the price of a door.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    8y

    There are plenty of other more expensive problems in the house you have yet to discover.  $500 is incredibly minor, you probably have 10 times that amount in undiscovered problems.

    You going to pay a lawyer $350 an hour with a 20 hour retainer to sue over $500?

  • Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    A great 6 ft patio door is $550 to buy. Since your dad is a contractor, no cost to install. Why are u wasting your time wondering if u have a petty court case and not looking ahead and planning how to buy the next house? 

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    You need to read the sale documents.  Does it say you are taking as is where is?  There is usually a clause that says you are not relying on any oral representations of seller.  You need to be firm when you buy a house and have it inspected.  They either comply with the inspection or you walk.  You don't get to go around and find problems then ask to have the seller pay for them after the sale, it must be before.  Learn your lesson and move one.  Be glad this lesson only cost you the price of a door.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Dan Stewart I don’t know Michigan law or common practices but out here the buyer does a “final walkthrough” often the day or a few days before closing. Was that not an option for you? Not trying to sound like a jerk, genuinely curious. Maybe it’s not a common practice. Apart from that, if it’s literally been months just to get this far it will be months more to resolve it. It sounds like the owner would say it’s between you and your inspector because they didn’t do their job. So round and round it might go. And what does the inspectors report say? “Owner would not move bed!” or just to say the equivalent of “We’re all good!” And then you have to prove it was the prior owners burned out couch and not some jerk from the neighborhood. And so on...and so on... By the way, these are all small issues (meaning: not worth pursuing). Now if you think the owner hid a major roof defect and it’s costing you $15K then that’s another story.
  • Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jerry W.:

    You need to read the sale documents.  Does it say you are taking as is where is?  There is usually a clause that says you are not relying on any oral representations of seller.  You need to be firm when you buy a house and have it inspected.  They either comply with the inspection or you walk.  You don't get to go around and find problems then ask to have the seller pay for them after the sale, it must be before.  Learn your lesson and move one.  Be glad this lesson only cost you the price of a door.

  • Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    During the inspector visit is when I discovered the door issue. I specifically asked them about the door since we could not moved the bed. They told me it worked fine. I asked this question before the house was bought.  

    There is a whole lot of more issues but that was the long story. I was aware of the otger stuff.

  • Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:

    Dan Stewart I don’t know Michigan law or common practices but out here the buyer does a “final walkthrough” often the day or a few days before closing. Was that not an option for you? Not trying to sound like a jerk, genuinely curious. Maybe it’s not a common practice.

    Apart from that, if it’s literally been months just to get this far it will be months more to resolve it. It sounds like the owner would say it’s between you and your inspector because they didn’t do their job. So round and round it might go. And what does the inspectors report say? “Owner would not move bed!” or just to say the equivalent of “We’re all good!” And then you have to prove it was the prior owners burned out couch and not some jerk from the neighborhood. And so on...and so on...

    By the way, these are all small issues (meaning: not worth pursuing). Now if you think the owner hid a major roof defect and it’s costing you $15K then that’s another story.

    In the closing document, there was a agreement of a final walk through for myself. This is when I discovered that the past owner lied and hid things to make the house look better. It was brought up immediately.

    Their broker is actually blaming my real estate agent for not having the bed moved. Inspector did everything he could.

  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    If he told you, in writing that the door was not broken, you may be able to take him to small claims. But you already have $500 in escrow towards the door, correct? If so, is the extra $400 worth your time? Typically, you are supposed to do a final walkthrough the day of or day before closing to avoid issues like the garbage issue you explained. In that case, its likely you accepted as is and will get nothing for it. In my opinion, you have better things to do with your time. In the future, refusing to move something should be a red flag, and if you cannto properly inspect something, just factor full replacement cost into your price.

  • Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    and Fyi, im only asking questions. I already agreed i would pay the 4500 dollars that they would not fix out of pocket. I was not expecting another grand. This is not just about a door wall.

  • Beulah, MI · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Andrew B.:

    If he told you, in writing that the door was not broken, you may be able to take him to small claims. But you already have $500 in escrow towards the door, correct? If so, is the extra $400 worth your time? Typically, you are supposed to do a final walkthrough the day of or day before closing to avoid issues like the garbage issue you explained. In that case, its likely you accepted as is and will get nothing for it. In my opinion, you have better things to do with your time. In the future, refusing to move something should be a red flag, and if you cannto properly inspect something, just factor full replacement cost into your price.

    Unfortunately I did not getit in writing. 

    I need to remember this. I am way to nice. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Dan Stewart In a final walkthrough everything should be gone and you’d certainly notice: “I also found my fence collapsing into the neighbors yard, a burnt couch and they decided to use my property as a trash pit between the last time I seen the property and when I moved in.” If you see a burnt couch 24 hours prior to closing, I hate to say it, but why did you close? Not that any party likes closing delays but if I did a final walkthrough 24 hours before closing and I saw a collapsed fence and a burned out I wouldn’t close. So I still think I have to be missing something in the timeline. Unless you have a seller that did a final walkthrough at 3 pm with you and then unloaded a dumpster of trash at 5 pm which you then were surprised by at 8 am the next morning. That’s why I think I’m missing something about the timing of everything as well as my pseudo passive-aggressive question about “Why did you close?”
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Lessons all learned for the next house. None of these items are items you can go back and ask for money on. It sounds like you had a hunch about the door at the walk thru. If you had that much of a hunch, you should have requested/required the bed be moved. If they stated it worked, you should have requested/required proof of the working and non damaged door prior to closing (can be inspected any time before you closed). Being a homeowner will cost a lot more than $1000. It may sting a little, but it is very small dollars for something that needs fixing.

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