Rental Property Investor · Exeter, CA · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 35 votes
Hello fellow friends!
I am just about ready to close on a property that appears to be of tremendous value, but something came up during the inspection that worries me.
When going down the crawl space, the inspector noticed that the beams and the joists were being supported by stone cinder blocks that are merely placed on the dirt instead of digging in a deeper footer for support. The crawl also appears to be quite moist, since there weren't any vapor barriers set up to prevent moisture from building up.
I am worried that over time the soil could shift, causing the supports to give way. It appears to be sturdy right now, but only time would tell.
Would this be a concern to you if you were buying it? A logical solution to this is to obviously remove the concrete cinder blocks and properly add supports with a deeper footer, but that might add a lot of unnecessary costs in the equation.
Also, according to your experience, would you recommend setting up a vapor barrier in crawl space?
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 30 votes
9y
Me, personally, I'd try my cheapest and simplest options first and work my way up unless I see something that is just obviously a major issue. I'd add an air vent through the block first and build up the ground around the perimeter and extend gutters to ensure good drainage like Deanna alluded to. Then I'd add a dehumidifier in the area and maybe run an extra hit off of my ductwork around that area. And if none of that worked I'd start thinking about encapsulation. These are to address moisture issues. As far as structural I'd take a hard look at the floor above. If it's tile and you're seeing lots of cracks you likely have an issue. Walk it real well, don't be afraid to jump on it a bit and feel if something's wrong. If you're not comfortable call in a structural engineer. Not sure how your part of the country is but another thing to keep in mind is termites and other insects nesting under there. Oftentimes, if it's damp they'll find their way there
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 30 votes
9y
Disclaimer first, it's a bit hard to tell from two pics and not being there or testing anything. I'm pretty sure those blocks in the middle of the crawl space are there for added support. They're not really necessary but it's sure not gonna hurt to have extra. The area I'd focus on is on the ends of the joists and make sure they're secure. Look for any signs of splitting or bowing. As far as moisture, I look on the wood for white residue as a sign for concern but I don't see anything like that in your pics. Remember, any time heat meets cold you're gonna get moisture so it's to be expected at times especially hot summer days. Mold and rot occurs from the moisture not drying. See if there's either an air vent in the block or a spot where you could easily add one. They also sell crawl space fans for like a hundred bucks or so. Just some of my personal thoughts. Hope it helps. But obviously use your own judgement
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
not easy but footing could be dug by hand in several spots if needed so concrete footing could be there.
Structural engineer if you really are concerned is fastest way to find out if joists are Ok as is with load bearing carried by the concrete side walls. Really not an expensive cost to call one out. well worth the guess work. as far as moisture,, he could probably advise on that also. Might be as simple as gutters and downspouts..
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 30 votes
9y
Me, personally, I'd try my cheapest and simplest options first and work my way up unless I see something that is just obviously a major issue. I'd add an air vent through the block first and build up the ground around the perimeter and extend gutters to ensure good drainage like Deanna alluded to. Then I'd add a dehumidifier in the area and maybe run an extra hit off of my ductwork around that area. And if none of that worked I'd start thinking about encapsulation. These are to address moisture issues. As far as structural I'd take a hard look at the floor above. If it's tile and you're seeing lots of cracks you likely have an issue. Walk it real well, don't be afraid to jump on it a bit and feel if something's wrong. If you're not comfortable call in a structural engineer. Not sure how your part of the country is but another thing to keep in mind is termites and other insects nesting under there. Oftentimes, if it's damp they'll find their way there
Rental Property Investor · Exeter, CA · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 35 votes
9y
@Deanna McCormick Great comments, thank you. The gutters and downspouts are in good shape and I don't see that as a problem at the moment. There are certain parts of the joists that are showing some signs of rot, and that could be attributed to a water leak that probably happened in the past. That being said, I think the crawl should have had all the necessary measures for moisture removal beforehand, and not after the fact. I was worried, thinking that the structure might have already been compromised, and surmising that the blocks were placed there to prevent further degradation of the wood or the supporting beams. I was hoping to gather feedback from fellow owners who have owned a house with a crawl, to see if this might be a potential deal breaker or something that buyers would accept. Another note: There are traces of mold on the dirt.
I don't know if I am being paranoid here, but since I'm in this for a long haul, I don't think I would want to risk buying a home where the previous owners had not done anything with moisture control.
Should I just grit my teeth, install a crawl fan, and go ahead with the purchase?
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 14 votes
9y
looks like a joist repair based on the different colored wood. Probably substandard.
Without other signs of structural damage I would just ask my contractor for an evaluation. But this is kind of standard fare under toilets and sinks around here.