PRIVATE power poles not disclosed. What's next?

PRIVATE power poles not disclosed. What's next?

China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

I recently purchased a home in Plymouth, MA (America's home town!).  It's 5 acres of woods, surrounded by 30 acres of conservation land, overlooking a pond and cranberry bog.  Idyllic, right?

The driveway is dirt, 2,000 feet long, dirt and VERY steep.  Let's just say that even with all wheel drive, I get a running start.

3 days after we moved in (February 28), we had a major wind storm that knocked a neighbor's tree over and took out our power lines.  After the utilities completed the repair, we still had no power to the house.  Luckily for me, my neighbor got my lines fixed because it was his tree.

That was the moment that I learned that we had PRIVATE power poles past the first 500 feet up the driveway.  I'm a real estate agent and I had no idea there even was such a thing.

The key point is that it wasn't disclosed in the listing nor in the "seller's statement of property condition".  I was completely blindsided, not to mention that I'm financially responsible for repair of these lines that run through the woods.

I'm considering going after the seller for the cost of upgrading the poles to the location and quality necessary for the utility to "adopt" them.  The current poles are not sturdy enough and a couple are not in a position where the utility can pull a truck up to the pole, which is a requirement of adoption.

We're looking at either upgrading the poles or trenching and running underground utilities.  Either way, my thinking is that because it was never disclosed nor discussed during the sales process, the seller is on the hook for the cost of getting these poles up to the point where the utility will adopt them - meaning that I will not be financially responsible for repairing downed lines in the future.  

I do have an attorney monitoring the situation and at the moment, we're thinking that the cost will be about $20,000.

Has anybody on BP ever gone through something like this?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    The last spec house I built required private power poles because of the distance from the road.  I don't recall any disclosure requirement at the time I sold it, but it was a long time ago.  Sounds like your situation is similar.  The seller may not have known it, or may not have thought to mention it.

    Honestly, I believe that this is one of those "you don't know what you don't know" situations.  Meaning you don't even know there is such a thing, so you don't know to ask about it.  There are lots of those in real estate, and unfortunately, most people learn what ever it is from experience.  The old term for it is "buyer beware".  

    Whether you have a legal recourse is up to your attorney, but keep in mind your attorney still makes money from you whether you prevail or not.  And if you don't prevail, you'll still have that 20K to pay in addition to attorney fees.

    I'm probably in the minority in thinking it is a learning experience.  It is a relatively recent phenomenon that consumers need to be protected from themselves.  Massachusetts excels at this, so you may in fact have a case.  But think about whether all the cost and angst of a long legal wrangle is worth it.  

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Thanks @Ann Bellamy.  I should mention that I bought the house from the person who built it back in 1985.  He definitely knew about the private poles because he had them installed.  

    In fact, the company I had come by yesterday to give me a price on upgrading the poles to meet utility standards is the same person who installed them 32 years ago.

    The price came in just under $25,000, plus whatever tree trimming is required.

  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Ah.  Well,  then he knew at the time, but whether he remembered something from 32 years ago is another question, or if he would even have thought it was worthy of mention.   People that build houses with long driveways as a business would of course all know this but might not even think it was something worth mentioning either.   I know I wouldn't even think to mention it

  • Investor · Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 727 posts · 500 votes
    9y
    IMHO Take your licks and move on. This situation is not uncommon in rural areas when the house is well off the road. Remember, your attorney will win for themselves ($$) no matter what.
  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    The other surprise is that I distinctly remember being taught that MA is NOT a "buyer beware" state when I took my pre-licensing course in real estate.

    Looking into it, a couple of trusted real estate blogs say that it is.  That makes me question how successful I would be if I went after the seller.

    I didn't want to go after the seller's agent, but as she and her husband have had private power poles in their cranberry bog, she definitely knew about them. Maybe her E&O is the way to go.

    Even more fun...

    The agent listed RE taxes as just under $3,000.  She and the seller neglected to mention that the taxes would double because the seller sold 30 surrounding acres to the town for conservation.  $3,000 was the amount taxed as "agricultural".  I have 5 acres, which is not enough to qualify, so now I eat an extra $3,000/year in perpetuity.

  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    There are lots of things that change the property taxes when a new buyer acquires a property.  Maybe the seller was a veteran, elderly, or disabled.  They state the taxes that they pay.  They increase because you aren't whatever they were.  The seller had no way to know what your future taxes will be.

    And until the taxes are re-assessed because of a change, they are what they are, and the seller won't know what they will be when the new buyer gets the property.  Even if he sold part of it off.  

    This is why real estate is a high risk game.  Steep learning curve, and every municipality in MA has it's own little quirks.  Most investors learn something new from every deal.  You just learned a lot all at once.  

    I still wouldn't go after the seller or the agent.  It's like a divorce:  the only one who makes money is the attorney.  

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    As part of this transaction, he sold that 30 acres to the town.  He knew he was taxed as agricultural, and SHOULD have known that would no longer be the case.  No idea whether he actually knew.

    The tax info was sourced as "public record", so as far as that goes, it was true.

    BTW I have a staff attorney. He will be low or no cost if I choose to go to court.

    Either way, it's messy.

  • Real Estate Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2013 · 304 posts · 91 votes
    9y
    If it's cheap enough throw it into court and see what happens. Seems very grey though I wouldn't expect anything.
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