Investing in a "murder house"

Investing in a "murder house"

John FranczykPro Member
Wholesaler · Racine, WI · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 84 votes

I have a lead on a single family property in suburban Milwaukee. The house is in an estate and the lender filed a foreclosure action against the estate. It's going to a sheriff's sale in January. I reached out to the estate and the lender contacted me, but gave me little information other than the fact that they got a default judgment on the foreclosure claim for a little more than $170,000. Here's the wrinkle that I later discovered -- the now-deceased owner was murdered in the house by her adult son, who suffered from severe psychological problems. 

It's not my intention to be callous about this event, nor to belittle the problems of individuals who suffer from mental illnesses. Nonetheless, I would like to approach the bank with a lowball offer with an argument that if the property goes into the bank's REO portfolio, it will sit there for a long time because, statistically, fewer buyers will be willing to consider purchasing a murder house. The house itself was a crime scene. I believe that it is no longer sealed up, but there is a cleanup issue that the bank or the new owners will need to deal with.

Any thoughts or advice on how to approach the bank with this argument will be appreciated.  Thanks!

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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y

@John Franczyk , the neighbors will always tell the next occupant what happened. I don't see anything wrong with offering to the bank, but I wouldn't put much hope into it.

I would expect a HUGE discount before I bought a house like this. Some people are super creeped out by this information, while others don't care at all.

My neighbor died in his bathtub in the middle of August and wasn't found for 12 days. Eww. I did a lot of research on the subject, because I was concerned when the property was listed that it didn't mention it. (I'm an agent, and it wasn't in the agent notes, either.)

It turns out that every state makes up their own rules, but the property owner is not required to disclose in my state (CO) - it is considered stigmatizing the property. In California, you have to disclose any death (except for one as a result of AIDS) for three years. 

A quick Google search shows that in Wisconsin, you don't have to disclose unless it affected the structure. https://dearmonty.com/home-sellers-disclose-a-murd...

What would be your plan after you acquired the property? I would recommend disclosure, as the neighbors will certainly share, and it looks like you were trying to hide the fact if you do not disclose.

It doesn't sound like it was a sensational murder. In CO, they are trying to change the law after a family bought a serial killer's house undisclosed and were not happy about it. 

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  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Do not expect a huge discount.  Most banks know who to call for the clean up because they have dealt with similar issues in the the past.

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    @John Franczyk , the neighbors will always tell the next occupant what happened. I don't see anything wrong with offering to the bank, but I wouldn't put much hope into it.

    I would expect a HUGE discount before I bought a house like this. Some people are super creeped out by this information, while others don't care at all.

    My neighbor died in his bathtub in the middle of August and wasn't found for 12 days. Eww. I did a lot of research on the subject, because I was concerned when the property was listed that it didn't mention it. (I'm an agent, and it wasn't in the agent notes, either.)

    It turns out that every state makes up their own rules, but the property owner is not required to disclose in my state (CO) - it is considered stigmatizing the property. In California, you have to disclose any death (except for one as a result of AIDS) for three years. 

    A quick Google search shows that in Wisconsin, you don't have to disclose unless it affected the structure. https://dearmonty.com/home-sellers-disclose-a-murd...

    What would be your plan after you acquired the property? I would recommend disclosure, as the neighbors will certainly share, and it looks like you were trying to hide the fact if you do not disclose.

    It doesn't sound like it was a sensational murder. In CO, they are trying to change the law after a family bought a serial killer's house undisclosed and were not happy about it. 

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    How public was the murder?   Is it all over the news?  Will the murder story be the first headline you find when you google the address?     If it's super public, you may find it harder to rent to, and probably a much harder time to find a buyer, but if it's a private matter..  no one really needs to know how/why the house went into foreclosure.    Hope this helps!

  • Rental Property Investor · Fond Du Lac, WI · Member since 2016 · 215 posts · 136 votes
    9y
  • Waunakee, WI · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 28 votes
    9y

    I personally wouldn't touch it, but that's just me.  The difficulty is in assigning a proper discount for it being a murder house.  It probably affects the value in a negative way.  What you need to do is figure out how much a murder affects the home value and use that in your calculations.

  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    9y

    In WI there is no duty to disclose, as it is not a physical defect to the property, I have been watching one in my area for some time now, and buyers have been scarce, the issue is it is stigmatized, even though you are not required to disclose in WI, everyone knowns, and someone will tell the next occupant, that may be a problem. id say unless the deal is so good you cant pass up, leave it alone.

  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Chad Nagel:

     i just looked the one im watching now has a reserve of $97,320  it will sit, when i can buy it for $1,000-$1,500 an acre i will buy it, but not until then

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
    9y

    I've looked at a discounted murder house before, and I passed. I just couldn't do it. It was not disclosed, but when googled the previous owner, all the media articles came up. There's always going to be another deal.

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