Thinking of buying first house...please help!

Thinking of buying first house...please help!

Berkeley, CA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes

Hi everyone...this is my first post on this website. I'm 20 years old, totally unfamiliar with the world of real estate but eager to learn how it works. Right now I have about 20k and I'm making about 1800 a month. I'm looking to potentially buy a house with my best friend, a very savvy, enterprising kid who's 22. He just finished college. He took some class on real estate and got a license. He also studied economics, and he's extremely good with people and negotiation. I'm certain he'll find some way to get rich. He's also trustworthy and generous; we've know each other forever. Anyways, he's scrapped up about 150k in investment money, split between 50 of his and 100 of friends and family friends. We've been looking around at houses to potentially buy, fix up, live in, and sell (we're not sure for how long we'd live there or when we'd sell it, just whenever the time is right.) We found a 3 bedroom one bath for 500k. I contacted some agent, and he said there's a septic problem which he estimates will cost 37k to fix. I feel like this is probably sort of a low ball estimation. Anyways, the house looks pretty ideal from the pictures I saw, and at a phenomenal price, when compared to similar houses in a similar location. Most of the similarly-sized houses in that area are going for around 700k. The location is great; it's about 10 mins away from college campus and downtown. It's right next to a creek and a big park, and close to an elementary school. The school system in my city is great. It's an extremely expensive place to live because it's a desirable place to live. Housing prices in my city are outrageously high, which, as my father explained, is good and bad, as the housing market could continue to soar or it could crash...anyways, there's an overflow of students looking for housing, which the University can't handle. Thus there should be a reliable influx of students eager to rent out our house, should we decide to rent it out or move, in the future. In the meantime, we would be living there with a couple other friends (whose money makes up the 170k down payment we would have). 

So...it looks like a potentially very lucrative and worthwhile investment. Mortgage would cost around 2300 a month. We could easily come up with that. I would be paying a lot of the mortgage because I'm actually making the most per month, and eager to invest it in something lucrative. The other kids would contribute, and we would rent out rooms whenever someone has to leave for a while, and the long term plan is to rent it out/live on it for a few years or whenever is a good time to sell it, and then sell. I read online that a "fixer-upper" house is one of the best ways to make money in real estate. We would fix the septic system, and maybe install a new bathroom. It's worth noting that the house sits on a 10, 000 sq foot lot, so there's plenty of room to garden or potentially build more rooms for students, even a whole separate outhouse type thing, to rent out...

My questions to the community: why is the house going for so low? What's the catch? It was built in the 1930s... What should I watch out for? And what kind of stuff could go wrong? My dad, who is conservative in every aspect of his life, thinks I should invest iver the long term in mutual funds, but this is way more sexy and exciting, and I'd get to do it with my friends. He thinks of there is such a great deal, some experienced contractor would have pounced on it already. Also, do you guys have any other suggestions for how I could invest money? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

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Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
9y

@Benjamin K. - I'll preface this by saying that what follows comes from a place of concern. I don't mean to be a negative Nancy, but to give you a reality check and reign in your excitement with some further thinking about this deal. I obviously believe strongly in the power of real estate investing, but this is not the deal to start with. Hopefully you can learn from my explanation of my concerns.

First, and possibly most importantly, one thing does not add up for me.... how are you going to pay "most" of the $2300 mortgage when your income is $1800/month? Have you talked to a bank about getting the loan? With no landlord history and your $1800 being the highest income involved, I'll be very surprised if anyone gives you a loan.  A bank is also going to need to see cash for the downpayment and reserves in your name, and the money can't be coming in from other people. It will need to be in your accounts for 6 months before it is considered seasoned. Hopefully I've missed something and you've got that part figured out! Or maybe I should hope you haven't got that figured out, because then you won't trap yourself in this potential disaster of a deal. 

Honestly, reading the whole post, I think you might need to do a little more research before you jump into something with this much money - especially other people's money. I see three reasons you are going ahead with it. 1) You read on the internet that buying a fixer-upper is good. 2) Real estate investing is "sexy," and 3) The house is worth a little more than it's asking price. Tap the breaks. Those are terrible reasons to invest in this house.

The septic problem is definitely a good enough "catch" to explain the low price, but you don't mention any long-term exit strategies. What is your long-term goal here? If you live in it for a year and are able to sell it for $700k (which is something of speculation for such a short term, but any longer and this ceases to be an investment), after you price in paying a realtor, fixing the septic, and paying the mortgage, your profit is less than $100,000. If you stay in it for 3 years, like you say, you have even less profit, unless it appreciates significantly in that time. Three years is not long enough to count on any appreciation, especially in this market, where people expect a downturn pretty soon. I don't know your area, but quick math tells me you're going to need a solid $3,500-4,000/month in income to make any long-term money on the place. 

So with that in mind: what are the agreements with all of the money you raised? How much and when are your family and friends planning to get paid? How are you going to pay them when you're living there? What does the house rent for if you move out? 

In the long run, I think it's likely that this deal ends very badly. You could lose money, friends, your credit, and your faith in real estate investing. After writing this, I think I'm rooting for the bank to tell you "no." Unless you have a lot more understanding of the deal that you just didn't post, I think you need to do a lot more learning, go back to the drawing board, and find a better deal. 

Sorry if I sounded a little too negative! I just want to see people start right.

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  • Property Manager · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2015 · 251 posts · 129 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin K.,

    Ultimately if the numbers make sense they make sense. I couldn't imagine going into something that expensive on my first deal, but I do live in Alabama so our prices are drastically different. Now, as far as the market going up or crashing I try to eliminate as much worry about that as possible. I do that by looking at the numbers something like this: Does the amount I can rent it for versus the amount of monthly expenses give me flexibility to lower rent and keep people in it if the market moves unfavorably, when I project cashflow how long will it take me to recoup the money I put in because once I make that money back I now have no money invested in the project but I will still have debt over my head. I don't know any specifics about your market, definitely stuff to bring up with people that are experienced specifically in your market and that have no benefit in selling you the property. Be concerned about checking the bones of the structure for the age, for instance eye stuff can be fixed up pretty easily like drywall or carpet but the bones like supports rotting is a little more involved. I know that when I look at tax records for rental properties in my area there are a lot of California mailing addresses, and thats because California income stretches a lot further in other markets like mine.

    Good Luck

  • Berkeley, CA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Great, thanks for the response!

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    9y

    Is relocating a possibility, lol?

    Half a million would take you pretty far in other states.

  • Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin K. - I'll preface this by saying that what follows comes from a place of concern. I don't mean to be a negative Nancy, but to give you a reality check and reign in your excitement with some further thinking about this deal. I obviously believe strongly in the power of real estate investing, but this is not the deal to start with. Hopefully you can learn from my explanation of my concerns.

    First, and possibly most importantly, one thing does not add up for me.... how are you going to pay "most" of the $2300 mortgage when your income is $1800/month? Have you talked to a bank about getting the loan? With no landlord history and your $1800 being the highest income involved, I'll be very surprised if anyone gives you a loan.  A bank is also going to need to see cash for the downpayment and reserves in your name, and the money can't be coming in from other people. It will need to be in your accounts for 6 months before it is considered seasoned. Hopefully I've missed something and you've got that part figured out! Or maybe I should hope you haven't got that figured out, because then you won't trap yourself in this potential disaster of a deal. 

    Honestly, reading the whole post, I think you might need to do a little more research before you jump into something with this much money - especially other people's money. I see three reasons you are going ahead with it. 1) You read on the internet that buying a fixer-upper is good. 2) Real estate investing is "sexy," and 3) The house is worth a little more than it's asking price. Tap the breaks. Those are terrible reasons to invest in this house.

    The septic problem is definitely a good enough "catch" to explain the low price, but you don't mention any long-term exit strategies. What is your long-term goal here? If you live in it for a year and are able to sell it for $700k (which is something of speculation for such a short term, but any longer and this ceases to be an investment), after you price in paying a realtor, fixing the septic, and paying the mortgage, your profit is less than $100,000. If you stay in it for 3 years, like you say, you have even less profit, unless it appreciates significantly in that time. Three years is not long enough to count on any appreciation, especially in this market, where people expect a downturn pretty soon. I don't know your area, but quick math tells me you're going to need a solid $3,500-4,000/month in income to make any long-term money on the place. 

    So with that in mind: what are the agreements with all of the money you raised? How much and when are your family and friends planning to get paid? How are you going to pay them when you're living there? What does the house rent for if you move out? 

    In the long run, I think it's likely that this deal ends very badly. You could lose money, friends, your credit, and your faith in real estate investing. After writing this, I think I'm rooting for the bank to tell you "no." Unless you have a lot more understanding of the deal that you just didn't post, I think you need to do a lot more learning, go back to the drawing board, and find a better deal. 

    Sorry if I sounded a little too negative! I just want to see people start right.

  • Berkeley, CA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    No I appreciate the honesty, really. I am a total novice in this game, so I need to hear some harsh realities. As for your points...

    1. We would probably put it down in our parents name(s). There's no way a bank would lend that money to us. One of our dads is investing about 50k, we'd ask for a loan with his name and my best friends dads name. 

    2. As for the mortgage; my dad currently pays for my rent while I'm in school, and he's agreed to put the money he would be spending on rent towards the mortgage. So that's 1300/month for the next 15 months. After that, I'd be working full time and my income would increase significantly; to around 4,500 a month. Then we would divide the rest of the mortgage between the other 3 of us

    As for long-term exit strategy...we're not totally sure. That's where it's somewhat unclear, which we'd have to talk about before doing anything. We're based in Santa Cruz, by the way, where housing prices are astronomical. We all plan to live there for a few (roughly between 1-6 years, or more, were really not sure), and then probably move out as we go on with our lives, and sell it. So you're right, in a way it's not really an investment; were buying a house to live in it, until the time is right and we can sell it. That part is still pretty unclear, and we'd have to discuss it extensively. 

    If any of us leave for any period of time, we rent out our room. Rent is easily 1200-1300 in Santa Cruz; getting 3600-3900 a month off the house would be no problem when we moved out, and we could do that indefinitely. Because there will always be students looking for housing in Santa Cruz; as I said, there's an over abundance of students, and UCSC keeps admitting more and more students each year. 

    As for dividing up the money; that's where we'd have to get specific with percentages. We don't really have that figured out yet. Everybody else who's potentially in on this plan is currently in Thailand, so I'd have to wait til they get back to discuss it. We could potentially have it until the optimal time to sell it, whenever the market is high. 

    Thanks a lot for the advice and concern, I appreciate it. If you have any follow-up advice, considering what I just said, that would be greatly appreciated, too. Thanks 

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockwall, TX · Member since 2015 · 891 posts · 701 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin K.

    I was going to make the same points that @Kevin Siedlecki has already made. You sound very excited and motivated, which is great, but you need a real plan. In addition to just paying the mortgage, you are borrowing $100k+ from friends and family - they may want repaid at some point in the foreseeable future. Just assuming it will all work out seems like a recipe for disaster.

    Additionally, if the house is going to be in your parents name and they are going to be responsible for paying the bulk of the mortgage, it sounds like you are making them a real estate investor by proxy, which is concerning since you mentioned in the original post that they are conservative and favor mutual funds. Long term, they may not be very happy with this investment.

    Anyhow, think carefully about what you do and whose money you're using. Losing your own money is one thing, losing your parents is another. If you go into an investment with no plan, you may luck out and be successful, but the odds are stacked against you. After all, if this was such a no-brainer, why aren't the thousands of seasoned investors in the area all over it?

    -Christopher

  • Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin K. - @Christopher Brainard makes more good points. 

    If you don't have a plan in place for investors, this is even worse than I thought. Even if you structure it as a low-interest loan with interest-only payments (not the best option for your investors, but ideal for you in this case), you're looking at putting out $10k+ a year in payments to your investors. You need a real plan for paying investors and at least one legitimate exit strategy (live in it until you sell at a peak in the market peaks is not a legitimate exit strategy: it's a pipe dream), and you need to run real numbers with this. Add paying your investors, CapEx and maintenance expenses, and other property-specific expenses you'll have, and this property looks like a loser even if things go well. The numbers just don't work. Keep looking. Good luck!

  • Stephanie MedellinBusiness Member
    Mortgage Broker · CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 642 votes
    9y

    Are there public sewers in the area now that you could hook up to, instead of fixing the septic system?  What kind of repairs does the septic system need, and is it repairable or do you need a whole new system?  Is the lot big enough for whatever repairs are needed?  I'd investigate that first.  I don't know much about septic systems other than we had one growing up, although never had any issues.  

    Stephanie Medellin, Loan Factory58 Reviews
  • Investor · Aptos, CA · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 38 votes
    9y

    Im guessing your looking at that Branciforte dr property? I do have a copy of the septic inspection,,its not the tank, its the leach field. You'd need an alternate system as its near a riparian corridor (creek). And yes..every investor in Santa Cruz has passed on it so far, but its a decent price I think. As a first investment? You could run into trouble. Also who's gonna loan on this? Hard money maybe but thats about it. 

  • Berkeley, CA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    I agree, we need a specific, long-term plan with numbers and attention to detail. We'd need to all meet up first...

    Questions: what is CapEx?

    What is a potential legitimate exit strategy? What is the best way people usually flip a house? How do you guys successfully flip houses, what do you do? Yeah that's the one, on Braniforte.  That's awesome that you're in the area and familiar with the property, if you could ever talk on the phone that'd be great, as I said, I'm interested in getting into the real estate game in the area. Anyways, WHY, in your opinion, have all the investors passed on it so far? I feel like it's a good area and price. 

    To everyone: what would you guys recommend as a first investment? How does someone in my position get started in real estate? How did you guys get started? 

    Much appreciated 

    @Brian C.

  • Investor · Longwood, FL · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 130 votes
    9y

    I appreciate your enthusiasm. You are training your mind to think like an entrepreneur but yes hit the brakes.I would love to hear how this works out. It is quite the social experiment. Berkley is a good place for it. Capitalism merges with Communism and Socialism. Keep in mind that everyone's plans will change in a couple of years and the arguing will start. If you do this get everyone involved to sign a contract. I think you will find that they are not as committed when they must obligate themselves in writing.

  • Waianae, HI · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 47 votes
    9y

    CapEx - is the Capital Expenditures. These are usually large expenses that you'd need to budget for in major repairs on your property (i.e. roof, central a/c repairs, etc.)

    @Benjamin K. Also you need to plan on asset protection many do not plan for it, however if you are looking long term real estate and protecting your resources, I would highly recommending looking into making a business plan that incorporates this.

    Best wishes on creating wealth, freedom and taking action!

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