St Petersburg VS Tampa - the battle of two cities

[Eric Delcol]

Hi All, We are new to the FL market and have decided to invest in the Tampa area. I've read some interesting posts regarding the debate of which city is better - St Petersburg or Tampa. The posts I read were more focused on which city is better to live in - I'd like to pose the same comparison as to which city is better to invest in for buy, rent, hold. The main arguments appear to be that Saint Pete has a livelier downtown a better waterfront more traffic more crime Tampa is a well-rounded city livelier night life less outdoor activities bland waterfront A general agreement I've seen about the two cities is regardless of which one you think is better – live where you work. With that said what side of the bay are renters more likely to work in? Which city do you think is better?

[Michael Haynes]

Its always been know that there are more ways to party in Tampa even though the beach is in St. Pete. Tampa is the growing business town with the port finally getting new cranes to handle the new Panamax ships that are heading for here from the enlargement of the Panama Canal. I think they voted that we have the best airport in the world which is currently in a billion dollar expansion on the West side. St. Pete is half trailer parks for the retired. Half of Florida is built for the retired. If we get any weather, it hits the beaches first. Tampa is ten miles up the Tampa Bay from the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. Tampa almost never has a tornado and only once had a hurricane in 1926. It is greener in Tampa with endless trees and some hilly areas compared to St. Pete which is a flat peninsula. Your question is whether you can make more money in Tampa or St. Pete? Are you looking for a JOB or do you have the means to move here and just start a Real Estate Investment business. Are you going to be a hands on landlord or buy enough apartments or a trailer park that someone else will manage for you? Doctors and lawyers find themselves looking to "invest" for the long term in Real Estate, but, they cannot manage or repair or even take care of the bookkeeping and taxes. So, they think to buy blocks of 100 or more apartments or commercial buildings and pay for others to do all the work. Then, they are taken advantage of by their management and handymen etc. and end up selling at losses because they don't have time to keep track of their properties. You know that most single family homes are not able to cover their costs. There are ways to find Foreclosure properties, or even pre-foreclosure properties and distressed properties that you can fix up and try to make them cash flow positive. But, you still have to landlord them with the class of people we have in Florida. Remember, this is a Right to Work State. Lots of renters make ten dollars an hour or less. The good ones work two jobs or both couples work or the husband has a small business or profession. The good neighborhoods and better classes of earners or business people are the ones that buy houses and carry mortgages and try to make bigger businesses. The break off point in rents is around a thousand dollars a month. If you can pay that or a little more you can Buy instead of Rent. I planned 30 years ago to build my portfolio in Tampa because I had a Union Hall here and it was safer. You have other considerations besides the opportunities available to get good buys on properties to rent, flip or hold. Tampa as compared to St. Pete has areas in the South of downtown and around the airport and on the outlaying areas that are all tear down and build out with two and three story homes, mini mansions and townhomes. The one thing that makes instant cash flow are trailer parks. We don't allow trailer parks in the City of Tampa. St. Pete does and there are hundreds of them. If you are going to live here, then, you will be able to do your due diligence and get the mornings listings for deals and make contacts with agents who will specialize in deals for you, with different finance people to have ready access to cash when you find an auction property or the like. Do you know how to us 3D Google Mapping? You can use the mouse on the computer and literally descend from outer space to the street level or slightly above tree top level and fly around anywhere you want to see before you get there and have an idea of the lay of the land. It's good to know the bad sides of town to avoid when looking for deals. In Tampa that is the East side of I275 for the most part and the South side of Central Ave. downtown St. Pete. I see a the members of BP talking about how the numbers work out with a property and that is important, but, what about location, location. I have a property on a mountain in Rio de Janeiro that looks down on a valley that looks like Swiss Alps without the snow. I have a house on a hill across from the beach with a million dollar view that gives me a feeling and vista that I don't get from my houses that are next to houses, looking at a house or empty lot across the street. You have to become familiar with any business that you are planning and this one involves Location. The last thing is the question for what happens after this Election? What happens next year if China cannot keep up the Kabuki Theater and their Real Estate Bubble explodes like none other in the history of the world and the banking system worldwide collapses? Are you ready to jump in and buy the distressed properties then and hold on for a recovery to sell in better times. I trade Futures online in the mornings for Daily Cash Flow, tax-free, in my Roth IRA and the whole idea is to able to see the price movement and the Waves when they are low and Buy or high and Sell in the short term. The problem with Real Estate is that you cannot cash out quick enough during down times. We all need a place to live. I am selling my rentals because I think we are at the top and I will maybe build new townhomes to live in on my commercial lots and use the Residential Sale Rule to live in one for two years and then sell tax-free to move into my next townhome etc. for my retirement. That way I avoid having lots of tenant problems with older houses that need constant repairs. If we do crash again, I could look for a trailer park in a better area that is big enough to have someone that I know, live there in one trailer and take care of the whole mess for me because I don't have to wait for the cash to start rolling in with trailers. Lots of things to consider, but, you should fly out and drive around and see the areas first. You have a lot of different memebers in Tampa and agents who can help to orient you to the different opportunities. Just look on Zillow.com for all the Foreclosure properties in the best areas and see if the numbers work for you and if you can afford to pay cash.