Does Bigger Pockets encourage Ninja Investors?

Question

Prelude: I wish the subject lines had more space. But I digress ;)

Question: Do you think Bigger Pockets encourages Ninja Investors? For those unfamiliar, Ninja was a slang term, especially in the last run-up of "No Income, No Job, No Assets", mostly used to refer to people that were getting mortgages without anything to back them up.

Now, let me start by saying I love Bigger Pockets. There are some awesome investors here, great success stories, newbies to keep one from becoming too jaded, advice on everything from tax strategy to tenant relations. The depth of knowledge here is stunning, and I visit the site daily for at least 15-30 minutes.

I have blogged on this before, and posted on it before, but I am curious as to whether or not the very format and aura of success around here encourages the proliferation of Ninja investors. Sometimes it seems every other post is a version of "Hi, I'm a student with terrible credit, and no job; I want to invest in 30-unit high-end apartment buildings and I'm going to see some today, but I'm having trouble identifying funding sources - can you help?"

For my part, all I can do is shake my head, as Jim Croce once said (if you know who this is, we're probably in a similar demographic). What would lead people to believe that it is anything but a very minute possibility that one can "invest" in real estate without any money, and, even worse, without any experience or skills when it comes to real estate?

I get it that everyone wants to come to the party, especially now with prices having risen fairly dramatically, but sometimes I wonder if the Bigger Pockets room is akin to standing on the floor of a casino where a few people have won dramatic sums in some of the "skills" games (poker, blackjack, etc), and everyone else starts running out into the hallways begging for money to drop in the slot machine so they can get theirs too.

Anyway, it seems an interesting philosophical question to ponder, and I'm curious what others may think!

Brent Coombs · Answer

I'd rather see them be bold enough to share here on BP, before they get sucked into some pay-for-my-secrets guru vortex. The responses I see (and sometimes give) are largely aimed at keeping them grounded in reality, explaining that strategies such as wholesaling (if allowed in their State) are time consuming HARD WORK, which may end up being rewarding to those who can stick at it.

ie. I don't see "encouragement" as a bad thing (moderated well I believe, here at BP)...

ie. I don't see "encouragement" as a bad thing (moderated well I believe, here at BP)...

Daniel Chang · Answer

Jd Martin,

My sentiments exactly.  I see way too many people posting wanting to get started in REI with nothing saved, little income, little experience and poor credit, dreaming on making money in real estate.  I feel the overwhelming sentiment on BP is a "you can do it" approach.  Now for the most part, this is a great thing!  However, sometimes it doesn't paint a very realistic picture.  I also follow other forums such as fatwallet.com, which is unmoderated.  And if the same ninja investors were to post there, I'm sure they would get a much better taste of reality.

As an example, I recently saw a post where a new BP member without much of a profile or picture who allegedly wholesales 13 million to 1 billion commercial properties wanting to know how to find investors.  Right away, it is obvious this is a pipe dream.  Anyone who really deals in 13MM+ commercial properties doesn't need to come on BP to ask how to find investors.  Furthermore, at that level, you are dealing with institutional investors, board members, etc., this isn't your typical SFR wholesale.  Most of the replies were "goto REI clubs and network".  I didn't bother replying, but I felt the better reply should be "you are pipe dreaming, start smaller, much smaller".

I also from a personal philosophical standpoint disagree with new investors wanting to use "OPM" unless it's a loan that they will personally guarantee.  Now granted, for your ninja investors, who have poor credit, they are unlikely to secure a loan, and so want other investors to put in the money for them.  From an ethical perspective, one has to risk their own money first and learn with their own money before risking other people's.

Charlie Fitzgerald · Answer

The beauty of this BP forum is that those of us that know better can guide those of us that don't.  We just have to be willing to do so.  I am the first to encourage all manners of entrepreneurial spirit and at the same time I am one of many that will be happy and feel obligated to also re-direct some of the posters seeking guidance here when they present themselves in a manner that I know from my own experience is as you say, a "pipe dream".  I have built a very successful business from little or nothing in a few industries, including real estate over my 40 years of what I would call "active engagement in survival".  I have also been hammered into near extinction by those same industries from time-to-time, and through sheer determination and hard work and prudent cash management some how survived.  So, I think those others like me on BP can do a lot to guide fellow BP'ers to do the same thing.  Providing that there is a mutual agreement to allow for it.  Some people do not want to hear what they don't want to hear and will strike off and do what they want to do regardless.  I also think we have to call BS when we see suggestions being made that are so far from reality that it must be called out.  Along with calling out the scammers, hucksters, and "legends in their own minds" that always seem to find a way to find enough people to separate from the little bit of financial resources they do have.  The best advice you can give someone is the best advice that fits THEIR set of circumstances.  With honesty and ethics, along with a healthy dose of "pay it forward" mentality.  This is the spirit in which I think the BP forums can be the highest level of service.  As long as there are enough people to practice this.

JD Martin · Answer

Good points all! I should have clarified that I was leaving "wholesaling" out of my equation, as I honestly don't see assigning contracts as "investing" so much as "working in the field", or, maybe more appropriately, "Creating a job for myself" :P

Does Bigger Pockets encourage Ninja Investors?

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