Rental with a in the ground pool?

Question

I had a lead come in today regarding a 3/2 1500 sqft home.  I will be going to walk the property in the next few days, waiting on the owner to schedule a time with the current occupants.  The property has an in the ground concrete pool in the backyard.  This house is located in the St. Louis Missouri area so pools are not that common.  I am wondering if anyone on here has a rental that has a pool and what are the pros and cons?  I plan to either wholesale it or keep it as a rental for my portfolio.

Kevin Prentice · Answer

Opportunities in RE are likes buses. One comes along every five minutes. A missed opportunity is nothing to fret over as another opportunity will soon present itself. Patience is the key. Wait for the best bus....the right bus.......not the first bus. I would take a pass on the pool house. IMO, the cons far outpace the pros. Such as:

• Many times a property that is unique in nature --- which it sounds like a house with a pool in your area is --- more difficult it is to move. To begin with, as nice as having a house with a pool sounds, in reality a far greater number of potential buyers don't want a pool. If a house with a pool was a strong selling point that created value and demand....there would be more homes with pools in your area, already.
• From the standpoint of a portfolio rental I would take a pass on this property. Why? Three reasons. Reasons #1 and 2, are hard to avoid and cost you money. Reason #3 rarely happens but can be a truly awful and unforgettable experience leaving your property stigmatized.

• Having a pool costs money. With respect to pool maintenance costs, that never goes away.....occupied or vacant. Once you realize that the next question is >>>>>who's going maintain the pool? Don't make the mistake of allowing the tenant to DIY. Tenants do not make good pool maintenance workmen. They usually do a poor job and/or neglect it outright. So that job is now going to fall on yourself or a pool maintenance company. Don't make the mistake of DIY. Your time is too valuable for you to become the pool boy. So now you decide on a pool maintenance company. Smart choice. But who's going to pay for that? Are you going to ask the tenant to pay for pool maintenance? Keep in mind the number of prospective tenants that want a pool AND are willing to pony up the money to maintain it are small. At that point your only option is to build the cost into the rental amount. Unfortunately that decreases the number of people that now can afford to rent the property.
• Increased insurance costs. You've got a better chance of pulling a rabbit out of a hat than dodging that bullet.
• Lastly, god forbid a tenant with a small child tragically suffers a pool accident. It happened to a fellow agent of mine. For that reason I'm avoid single family homes with pools.

Joe Splitrock · Answer

My friend has a pool and spends hours maintaining it each week on top of shut down start up that needs to be done by a professional. A tenant would never do the upkeep and it would cost you money. That is totally aside from the liability. My insurance provider doesn't allow pools in rentals. I am sure some provider would, but the cost will be higher. Either pass or if you must buy it plan the cost of removing the pool.

Bonus tip, also avoid trampolines or dangerous dog breeds in your rentals. Both are liability and insurance hazards.

Kyle J. · Answer

@Ryan Billingsley I have a pool at my own house but I don't buy rentals that have them.  Too much work and liability.  Like @Ronald Perich said, it's hard enough to get tenants to mow the lawn, so if you think they're going to take great care of a pool - that's not going to happen.

I have a family member who also buys rental properties and I told him not to buy this one rental because it had a pool.  He bought it anyway, and it turns out it was a lot of work and the tenants didn't take care of it (surprise surprise).  When the original tenants moved out, he asked all the new applicants if they wanted a pool or not.  Interestingly, all but one of them said they didn't want it due to the amount of work it would take to maintain it.

So him and I actually filled it in.   Here's some pictures of the process (before grass was planted at the end).

I still don't like buying rentals with pools, but at least there's a solution if the deal makes sense numbers wise.

Robert Bacher · Answer

Just my $0.02 .....

Liability would probably be the biggest issue. Costs of rental insurance.

The maintenance issue would be a close second.

Kyle J. · Answer

The costs were:

~ $1600 for the dirt (it was a lot of dirt!)

~ $450 for the bobcat & operator (we were going to just rent the bobcat but found a guy on Craigslist who owned one and was willing to also do the driving of it for about the same price as it would have cost to just rent the bobcat)

~ $450 to buy a jackhammer to knock down the edges around the pool and also to make a large hole in the bottom of the pool for drainage (we could have rented a jackhammer for cheaper but this way we own one and can use it on future jobs)

~ $100 to rent a tamping rammer to compact the dirt (to reduce the chance of it settling over time)

So, in total, about $2600.  We did the labor ourselves.

Alexander Felice · Answer

I used to LOVE the idea of having a pool. I was the 25% that @Ronald Perich mentioned.

Then I rented 2 places that had pools in a row, and I will never go near one again.

It costs a TON to maintain, it's a lot of work to maintain, and I didn't use it anywhere close to how much I thought I would. Your tenants are going to go through the exact same thing, and then decide they don't want the hassle.

Yeah it seems convenient and  luxurious but it's not. It becomes a pain and you just want it to go away but it's this big ugly PITA you can't hide or cover up and the only way to fix the problem is to move.

Have I mentioned that I hate pools?

Ronald Perich · Answer

@Ryan BillingsleyWhen I was looking for my primary residence, we saw a true fixer-upper. It had an above-ground pool. My agent said something I won't forget. "Pools will eliminate 50% of the population right away. The next 25% will not care one way or the other. The last 25% will be really excited about it." An in-ground is a rarity in this area, so I imagine the last 25% will be even more excited about it.

That said, you have to really be cautious with an in-ground pool around this area of the country. If it hasn't been cared for correctly over the winter months can cause numerous problems.

As for me, I would not keep a property with a pool for a rental. Liability aside, it's difficult to get tenants to mow grass - how easy will it be to get them to take care of the pool? Shut down in the winter and start-up in the spring will be costly. A SFH with a pool as a rental does not seem cost effective IMO.

To your continued success!

Franklin Romine · Answer

Here are photos of a pool demo at my rental... $3,000 labor, material and equipment, one days work.... in Visalia California.....

Kyle J. · Answer

Thanks @J Beard.  That's horrible about your friends daughter.  Sorry to hear that.  I can't even imagine.

For anyone interested, there is actually a Court of Appeals case (Johnson v Prasad) that directly addresses a landlord's responsibility when it comes to a child's death in a swimming pool.  In summary, the landlord in this case rented the home to adult tenants who had no children.  The pool did not have a pool fence around it (and apparently it wasn't required to because it was installed before the Swimming Pool Safety Act was enacted in 1996), but it did have a fence around the entire property.  One day the tenants invited some friends over who brought their 4-year old grandson with them.  The friends failed to supervise their own grandson and he made his way out of the house and into the pool where he fell in and drowned.  A lawsuit for wrongful death was filed by the child's mother and named the landlord as one of the defendants.  Initially the case was thrown out because the trial court found that the pool was not a nuisance or unreasonably dangerous, and furthermore the landlord had no reason to expect children to be playing in the pool (since his tenants didn't have any children).  However, the Court of Appeals reversed that ruling and found that, despite all that, the landlord DID have liability because they felt there was "a reasonable	 expectation that any swimming pool would be used by children; that all	 children, and especially young children, naturally approach swimming pools	 whether or not they know how to swim; that children know no fear and possess	 no discretion when it comes to dealing with the danger of death by drowning.	 Therefore the landlord should have foreseen that this drowning might have	 occurred."

I found this case to be quite surprising and frankly unbelievable when I first learned of it, but it's basically the case that solidified my decision to never own a rental with a pool.  As I said before, there's just way too much potential liability to make it worth my while.

Daria B. · Answer

Ouch!

Rental with a in the ground pool?

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