Advice for Handling Threats from Contractor

Advice for Handling Threats from Contractor

Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 169 posts · 164 votes

<Warning-- Longish Post Ahead>

I'm thrilled by the challenges and new learning that real estate investing has brought to my life. It's truly fulfilling on many levels. However, the most consistently terrible aspect of my investing experiences so far is dealing with disreputable trades guys-- plumbers, electricians, tile guys, contractors, etc. I've been ripped off, over-billed, vandalized, and had terrible work done that needed to be fixed by others. This has been the hardest, most frustrating, and stressful aspect of investing so far. One thing I have gotten smarter (and firmer) about though is to cut ties as early as possible after I start seeing bad work. I usually start by giving simple tasks, observe the work, and then decide whether or not to continue on with that person.

OK-- to my current dilemma: I used a plumber who was recommended by a well-known local investor in the Tampa area. The plumber was nice enough at first (aren't they all!), but his plumbing work was really, really terrible. I won't bore you with the details, but I'm talking about basic plumbing that I could do, but don't want (or have time) to do.

After I told him (very nicely) that unfortunately we wouldn't be working together on the rest of the project, I received a bill for $1,200. That was surprising, giving the small amount of work done. After reviewing his vague bill (not itemized), I offered what I considered a very fair payment of $850 ($350 less than he billed). Here's an excerpt of his response to the email I sent which had an Excel spreadsheet documenting how I arrived at $850.

This was his response last night:

"If I had known you wanted top notch work I would of gave it to you along with top notch pricing. How ever, i gave you decent work at a decent price with nothing wrong with it. Calling another plumber to go behind me and fix something will always result in that plumber doing and saying more than necessary. How ever. If you don't pay me my full amount I will inform my plumbing inspector Associates and code enforcement friends and they will pick that place apart and make you rip out alot of work and you will pay fees galore."

Now clearly, there's some failures in logic here, particularly about top notch vs decent work (this is the first I've ever heard someone admit that they intentionally do ****** work because the job is small...but he set, and I agreed to, his fee @$73 per hr.) But beyond the defensiveness and faulty logic-- it's the THREATS that I find bothersome. They are likely empty threats, but I can't be sure. Although I'm a new investor, and it's important to me to maintain an excellent reputation within the local investing community, I also won't be bullied into paying for shoddy work which I had to pay someone else to complete.

So, that's my dilemma. Perhaps it's similar to the "Cash for Keys" argument I've often read here. Do I stand my ground, perhaps potentially wind-up in small claims court (or worse a lien), and inspectors suddenly showing up at my door or is it worth the $350 to just make him go away (without any guarantee he won't still do what's he's threatened to do-- which is likely just empty talk.)

Your thoughts?

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Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y

Hope you got is license number - - report him to the State Contractor's board and supply all details,

including

  • the job details 
  • the bid response
  • your down payment for the acceptance of the bid
  • any progress payments
  • the final unitemized bill
  • then the verbiage the ensued

You best lookout for a lien on the property, NOW and after the dust settles

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Pickerington, OH · Member since 2012 · 230 posts · 139 votes
    10y

    How did he arrive at $1200?  Was that agreed upon initially?

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Hope you got is license number - - report him to the State Contractor's board and supply all details,

    including

    • the job details 
    • the bid response
    • your down payment for the acceptance of the bid
    • any progress payments
    • the final unitemized bill
    • then the verbiage the ensued

    You best lookout for a lien on the property, NOW and after the dust settles

  • Rental Property Investor · Fond Du Lac, WI · Member since 2015 · 261 posts · 78 votes
    10y

    "Hi, nice to meet you Mr. Plumber. My name is Mark and I don't want top notch plumbing" - Said no Mark ever 

  • Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 169 posts · 164 votes
    10y

    @Matt Stewart-- the project was bid at over $3K for the entire job. After I parted ways with him at the 10% completion stage, he said he'd send a bill only for the work he did. Which strikes me as self-evident, but I thanked him and waited for the bill.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 803 posts · 689 votes
    10y

    First, I never agree to pay a contractor hourly for a job. I have them bid the job as well as others exactly how I asked if they don't complete the work right they keep coming back till its done right or no payment happens. 

    Second, I would call him and see how he arrived at the $1,200 number. Most of the time you can discuss these things like adults and come to an agreement because he just wants to get paid and you want to be done with him. I can't imagine he would call the plumbing board since its some of his work that will be inspected and tarnish his name more than yours. I would try to work it out before I just give up the $350 but if you do agree to his full amount make sure you get a "paid in full" invoice. 

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Sorry, but my response would be, "shove it, your check will be ready at my office, and you get it after you provide the executed, notarized final release.  And I think I'll find all the inspectors and show them photos of your work".  Also, a lien really isn't a concern.  If you're not selling/financing within a year, it expires unless a suit to foreclose is filed, 60 days if you contest it.  You can also place a cash bond for 110% of the lien amount and have it removed.  There are also penalties for filing a false lien.  The threat of a lien isn't the big stick these like to think it is.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Pickerington, OH · Member since 2012 · 230 posts · 139 votes
    10y

    You could always go on the offensive and let him know that unless he settles for what you very fairly offered him for his work and time that you'll do a PSA at every investors meeting you attend over the next few months to share the experience you had with him and to warn them and anyone they know against ever hiring him for any plumbing work.

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