Looking for help in Ogden, Utah

[Nate Julian]

I'm looking for some good help in Ogden, Utah. IF you do RE there, or would refer someone who does, I'd love to be directed to them.

IN addition, do you know of any good property management companies in the Ogden area?

I'm not sure where to invest next, but I like the idea of Northern Utah in particular as that is where I am located. If you have any thoughts on Ogden, and/or Cache Valley, I'd love to talk.

Thanks!!!

[William Hochstedler]

Ok @Douglas Larson.  Here's where we differ on our Ogden outlook.  For reference, I will post parts of his Ogden comments below from the other thread.

If you spend a lot of time driving the streets of Ogden, you know the good the bad and the ugly. The biggest problems with land lording in Ogden are that tenant turnover is very high, rents are low and affordable homes are old and need a lot of maintenance. Also, if you look at historical values… properties never really appreciate, unless you get way up on the east bench.

I am not from Utah but I have researched a bit of history in the Ogden area. In the mid-1800s, Ogden was the meeting point for the east/west railroad. (Look up "Golden Spike" on Wikipedia.) The railroads brought in goods, labor and riffraff. Nothing has changed much in Ogden in 150 years! Bars, brothels and gambling sprung up around the railroad and we still see a more "colorful" environment in Ogden. There are certainly some nice family neighborhoods in Ogden and the city is revitalizing the downtown slowly but the "affordable" neighborhoods can be a landlord's worst nightmare! Lots of drugs and welfare folks. 

This perspective is mostly correct except that rent-to-value is actually pretty high and we've seen the bottom end of the market rise dramatically in the last year.  But Doug is absolutely spot on that Ogden has experienced 4-5 decades of exuberance and bust and subsequent cynicism.  Long time Utahns have pointed out that Ogden has been the great white hope for as long as they can remember but never come to fruition.  And these are some very old people with good memories.

During the same half century, there have always been the outliers claiming that this time it will be different and have consistently been wrong.  As a result, there are some very sore opinions about this town because people (mostly non-locals) have lost a lot of money there.

This time it will be different.

Internally, and what most people cite as the difference makers, are the massive investments in the Junction and historic 25th Street district, the new Temple, neighborhood improvement projects, very long-view rezoning, and strict development enforcement.  These are all great, but can only go so far.  Top down policies alone, no matter how progressive, are not enough to change the dynamic of a city without help from market forces and private investment.  

I lived in Brooklyn during most of the 1990's and my single biggest real estate investing regret is not having the experience nor guts to act on some of the long-shot opportunities I saw there.  During that period I would bicycle through neighborhoods near my apartment, navigate around the occasional (occupied) but unattended body bag to look at abandoned industrial space that I could have picked up for $30/sf.  Crack was readily available on every corner.  I had to bring my car battery home with me at night lest it be stolen.  These were the neighborhoods around the Atlantic Rail Yards, Fort Greene, and Boerum Hill which is now home to the Brooklyn Nets and the site of numerous $400M luxury apartment developments.

Of course this analogy is a stretch because of obvious differences between northern Utah and New York city.  But the energy is very similar.  We have tons of cool historic buildings, a rich history, great transportation, pockets of very stable neighborhoods, and diverse employment opportunities.  Furthermore, there are a lot of young, educated, and smart people getting involved in city government and other organizations.  Arguably more so than anywhere else in Utah.

So why did these earlier Ogden bubbles fail?  Jaded landlords and property management companies.  I have been in hundreds of properties in Ogden and the overwhelming majority represent management that hasn't cared a bit about these properties in decades.  Yes, we see (cheap) new cabinets, carpet and paint.  But no one has been fixing sagging floors or updating wiring.  They all represent a management mentality that assumes they will be renting to Section 8, drug addicts, and pedophiles forever--so why spend money on anything but duct tape.  (There is a recent surge in hands-on management companies and conscientious landlords who actually want nice properties entering the market.)

Why it's different this time is only partially attributable to neighborhood improvement efforts.  Like Brooklyn over the last 25 years, it's what's happening in the nearby metro hub.  In Salt Lake and northern Utah county, for the first time ever (except maybe the pioneers), we are seeing an influx of people who did not grow up here who are coming here for jobs and quality of life from all over the world.  This is putting massive pressure on these markets from incoming residents who do not necessarily share Utahn's conservatism or memories of Ogden in the 1970's.  Most young techies would rather live in San Francisco over San Jose.  Think about which of those Lehi more closely resembles.  We have consistently seen, across the country, that the trend is to urban city centers with cultural amenities rather than big box stores with plenty of parking.  

Of course, this will continue to drive the Salt Lake downtown market but after that, where are the places with urban character or appeal?  Not Payson, not Saratoga Springs.

Finally, we are beginning to see flippers (including Ogden City) find well qualified, owner occupant buyers who value quality remodels right in the heart of this alleged war zone.  This is also new and driving a market for better quality rehabs even at higher prices.

My view is definitely the long one, but I'm very bullish.