Best Markets for land flipping? @seth williams can you help?
Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 8 votes
Hey guys, like many of you, I've listened to Ep 39 of the BG podcast, and am now obsessed with the idea of buying super cheap land and flipping it. Some of you might remember from my other post that my credit isn't so hot so being able to get started in REI with the money I already have is extremely appealing to me, and some of you I bet are in the same boat.
I live in LA but I have family in the Poconos (PA) and in Orlando. I'm wondering if anywhere near these markets might be especially ripe for flipping raw parcels of land?
Secondly, does it even matter if I or someone I know can see the property? Is land typically flipped in absentia completely? Should I pay a photographer off of craigslist to go out and take pictures? Any help you guys can lend me would be so appreciated! Thanks!
Hi @George Torres - thanks for the shot out! Sounds like you're already getting some helpful feedback from @Ryan Pettitt and @Steve Haight, but if you're still looking for insights, I'll share my thoughts on your first two questions questions...
First off - I can't say I'm intimately familiar with either of those markets, but generally speaking, I think you can find acquisition opportunities almost anywhere if you're looking in the right places (and the delinquent tax list is a great place to start).
You'll probably be best served by looking in rural counties (areas that don't contain a big city) and it's ideal if these rural areas are within a reasonable driving distance (1 - 2 hours) from the nearest large metro area (that's what I try to shoot for anyway). This video explains more...
As for the pictures, I think you'll definitely want to see some representation of the property before you buy it (to make sure you understand what you're buying) and on the selling end, it will be greatly beneficial to have some pictures to include with your listing (if you literally have zero pictures, you'll have a much harder time selling it).
As a starting point, you can get a fairly good look at most properties with tools like Google Earth and AgentPro247, like this...
but even as helpful as these tools are in getting parcel maps, street views and the like, it's hard to replicate the value of an ACTUAL, on-site photo shoot without having someone (even if it's not you) visit the property and get some pictures.
If the property is too far away for you to get them yourself (which is usually the case with the properties I'm buying), there are a few ways to get what you need:
1. You can try to contact a local realtor and ask them to help you. The downside is, not all realtors are created equal, and you never know what you're going to get (if anything at all).
2. You can hire someone on Craigslist to help you out (offer to pay them $50 for some simple point-and-shoot pictures), but again... it's hard to predict how responsive and reliable a random stranger from the internet is going to be.
3. What I've found to be the easiest, most reliable option is to hire someone from WeGoLook to do it for you. I just started using them this past year and I've been pretty happy with their service.
Welcome to BP,
I have been flipping land for many years, mostly in the AZ, Nevada. Flipping land is an art and sure is quite a niche that most investors never tackle. I stated at a young age and bought my first 10 Acres from a fellow land investor and made 20k profit in 6 months that was back in 1984 from there I was hooked. Where do you plan on finding your inventory and what kind of strategy do you have for your exit program? I learned how to be effective on the acquisition side as well on the sale and marketing side. Now these days with technology so much easier to market vacant land online. Save your pennies on the pics no need for that. Reach out if I can be of any assistance to you.
Happy Investing,
@Steve Haight Thanks so much for the response. I literally just got started educating myself on this so my answers may seem a little fuzzy, but this is what I was thinking:
-I plan on finding my inventory by contacting a county's tax collector/treasurer's office and requesting a list of parcels that are delinquent on their property taxes but are owned free and clear (So there's no mortgage on the property);
-Exit strategy: Craigslist, Postlets, Zillow, etc (Too simplistic??)
I'm embarrassed cause I know there's so much I don't know but I hope this answers your question. Any thoughts on how I can improve my plan or how to best go about working it? I'm really looking to get started ASAP
Lets start with the basics and let me get to know more of your strengths. I started in the land flipping business out of sheer determination that I would not have to go and get a day job. No brains just plenty of energy at 27 that I had with a good mentor as well. Now with technology the way it is there are so many ways to do this business that I never had. You are asking the right questions and as far as resale there are many ways, what I had years ago was only the classified section of out of town properties or the penny saver, still sold thousands of acres that way. I know a fellow investor that has over 2000 acres of tax deed property in AZ ,that is the only way he would acquire it and sells it on time. Great strategy, I just never applied it. Personally I went after land owners with large tracts of land and put a marketing or lease option contract on the property with rolling options. So the more first I know about you the better I can help. I work on a consulting basis but here on BP I pay it forward as I like to help others get there quicker. So when I have a client I ask alot of questions the more I ask the better I do.
@George Torres Hey George! The Land Geek is an excellent resource. There is a Podcast called The Best Passive Income Model that can give you some more insight, tools and resources.
Once you receive a list of delinquent taxes, filter to remove parcels with structures and conduct some quick market research on the cost per acre in that area. Send out offer letters at a fraction of the resale value (typically 25%), and start your due diligence once you receive a returned offer letter. Mark Podolsky (The Land Geek) offers a Toolkit that can be an excellent resource to get started.
Craigslist is an excellent (and free) resource to resell the property. Make sure you post new content frequently.
For financing you can leverage option agreements with the current owners to test the market and find an end buyer.
Some quick tips and tricks to help you on your journey!
Great stuff, you are right on the money Ryan. Seems like you have repeated the process a few times.
Cheers,
That's very kind of you @Steve Haight. I'm not sure exactly what you would like to know about me but maybe this will help:
-I'm a 25 year old salesman for a healthy snacks distribution company...
-Selling, Cold-calling, are two of my biggest professional strengths...
-Financially, I'm doing ok. I make decent money and have about 75-80k in semi-liquid assets most of which is tied up in my 401k, but I wouldn't mind borrowing against it for investment purposes (as I've been advised to do on here by some)...
-For the short term, I see land flipping as the perfect way to get my feet wet and make some extra money while I learn the business..
-My goal is to do 4-8 land flips by August with an average price of about $3-4K (So I can resell for about 5-10k, because this is what I can afford to pay cash for...
-Come August, my goal is to buy my first duplex and house hack it for a year, financing it with an FHA loan...
I have big long term goals but in the next 6 months, that's (^^) what I'm looking to do.
@George Torres Hey George! The Land Geek is an excellent resource. There is a Podcast called The Best Passive Income Model that can give you some more insight, tools and resources.
Once you receive a list of delinquent taxes, filter to remove parcels with structures and conduct some quick market research on the cost per acre in that area. Send out offer letters at a fraction of the resale value (typically 25%), and start your due diligence once you receive a returned offer letter. Mark Podolsky (The Land Geek) offers a Toolkit that can be an excellent resource to get started.
Craigslist is an excellent (and free) resource to resell the property. Make sure you post new content frequently.
For financing you can leverage option agreements with the current owners to test the market and find an end buyer.
Some quick tips and tricks to help you on your journey!
@Ryan Pettitt Thanks for that. That's great info and I'll definitely check out the resource.
Can you elaborate on what you meant by "leverage option agreements with the current owners to test the market and find an end buyer"?
Interesting, that helps also read your bio. So you where a real estate agent, what happened to that? Do not be in a rush in this game you will always be learning 3 months is nothing when you are my age. I am here to teach people like yourself what I know do not want to take it with me, the lord upstairs probably will not need it lol! Tell you about my last deal that I did that is in escrow and should close next week. Not on this thread, my email and contact info is on my bio.
@George Torres An option agreement is a contract between you and the current owners of the property for a duration of time (typically 90 days). The intention is that you will purchase the property if you're able to find an end buyer. Basically you're wholesaling the property. During that 90 day period, you are marketing and searching for an end buyer. The deed remains in the hands of the current owner, and everything is transitioned at closing either to you (if the end buyer purchases on terms) or to the end buyer (if buying on cash).
Hi @George Torres - thanks for the shot out! Sounds like you're already getting some helpful feedback from @Ryan Pettitt and @Steve Haight, but if you're still looking for insights, I'll share my thoughts on your first two questions questions...
First off - I can't say I'm intimately familiar with either of those markets, but generally speaking, I think you can find acquisition opportunities almost anywhere if you're looking in the right places (and the delinquent tax list is a great place to start).
You'll probably be best served by looking in rural counties (areas that don't contain a big city) and it's ideal if these rural areas are within a reasonable driving distance (1 - 2 hours) from the nearest large metro area (that's what I try to shoot for anyway). This video explains more...
As for the pictures, I think you'll definitely want to see some representation of the property before you buy it (to make sure you understand what you're buying) and on the selling end, it will be greatly beneficial to have some pictures to include with your listing (if you literally have zero pictures, you'll have a much harder time selling it).
As a starting point, you can get a fairly good look at most properties with tools like Google Earth and AgentPro247, like this...
but even as helpful as these tools are in getting parcel maps, street views and the like, it's hard to replicate the value of an ACTUAL, on-site photo shoot without having someone (even if it's not you) visit the property and get some pictures.
If the property is too far away for you to get them yourself (which is usually the case with the properties I'm buying), there are a few ways to get what you need:
1. You can try to contact a local realtor and ask them to help you. The downside is, not all realtors are created equal, and you never know what you're going to get (if anything at all).
2. You can hire someone on Craigslist to help you out (offer to pay them $50 for some simple point-and-shoot pictures), but again... it's hard to predict how responsive and reliable a random stranger from the internet is going to be.
3. What I've found to be the easiest, most reliable option is to hire someone from WeGoLook to do it for you. I just started using them this past year and I've been pretty happy with their service.
@Seth Williams, that's some great info. Thank you, very much. I'll be sure to scour your blog before I go ahead and pull the trigger on my first purchase.
@Ryan Pettitt I love the idea of the option agreement, that is something I am going to start pursuing more.
I have read about sending out the offer sheets instead of the Yellowcards. I actually just listened to a webinar last night from Mark Podolsky who recommended it. I guess I see that as certainly offending more people and perhaps losing possible business. So is that method to help "systematize" as Mark put it? Reduce your work load by already having offers coming back rather than possible sellers?
I am in the process of following @Seth Williams advice and I am building a sellers page that will have a contact form with all the questions I would ask them prior to committing to a sales offer. Hoping to streamline the process there and maybe get more offers coming back.
The people in my land investing group buy and sell raw land on a daily basis in various areas of the country including Florida. They purchase the land directly from motivated owners at a deep discount or option the properties and pre-sell them to find buyers.
You can check property listing sites to see where other land flippers are currently operating. Ideal properties to for land flipping are typically located within a few hours from a medium or large city. Close enough to be within a reasonable drive from amenities but far enough away to be affordable.
Be Careful in the Poconos. There are thousands of created lots going back to the 1960s. Many of them are failed perk test or never tested, some are wetlands, some are flood plains, and therefore there are many that are unbuildable, and as such are virtually worthless.
Many are sold on the web, under the bigger sucker theory. Don't be the bigger sucker.