Brick House....?

Question

Hi all,

Anyone wants to explain the benefits or downfall of buying an all brick home?

I have a pending offer on an all brick, that is definitely going to need some major work (mostly inside).

Just would like to know the pros and cons.

Thanks

~C

John Hickey · Answer

@Charmaine M.

Congrats on the new project hope it works out!

I have a little experience with a brick home and my experience could apply to you or not. As a matter of fact if you have brick veneer this will not apply to your house at all.

@Doron Rice mentioned this might be structural brick or not. A mason could tell you this. Or you could investigate yourself, a newer structure is most likely brick veneer. But there are some bricklayers still building so check thoroughly if your determining it on your own.

I'm not an expert on masonry so I would check with a mason to be sure.

I'll share my experience/opinion.  I bought a 3 family in Brooklyn in 2007, the house was built in 1889. It's attached on two sides and looks like a brownstone except it's brick. The pattern looks like this. Notice that every five layers the bricks go in lengthwise, this ties the two layers together. I think they call it "American bond pattern". This is older brick construction, however some brick veneer mimics this. BTW this wall needs pointing..... a point in time saves nine.

One of the advantages of this type of brick is that if I expose it and clean it up really well I can get higher rents(I think it's cheaper in some respects and less maintenance because I never have to paint it either) In my area it has meant that (from what I have heard from my tenants/brokers) my apartment got rented while another of similar size and price with no exposed brick lay vacant.

One disadvantage would be energy efficiency of the exterior wall system. When I bought my house my intent was to gut it floor by floor as the years went on and insulate as I went to make the place more energy efficient, after learning more I never did insulate the walls. instead I insulted the roof, got new windows and caulked every crack, I am also in the process of installing central units to pass along the costs of HVAC to the tenants.  I am sure there are many people out there and on here who have insulated brick walls with no issue, but there are people who have spent big bucks rebuilding exterior walls after adding insulation to an old brick building, In queens you might be able to get away with it, but I never took the chance. This article talks about (insulating brick

One last thing if you do have the older type brick, here is a lesson I learned a little exposed brick in the common areas is better than none.

Good luck!

Doron Rice · Answer

Hi

You have to check the exterior wall well. Check in what condition is the brick exterior finish (assuming the brick isn’t structural). Check if the bricks needs to be repointed and especially if there is any sign of decay or white coating which is usually a sign of water infiltration issue between the substrate and the brick. Brick, just like any other exterior finish, if taken care of is a sound exterior finish.

Hope it helps.

Kyle N. · Answer

Well, its a brick house!  it should be very strong and virtually maintenance free.  That being said, you have to watch the mortar joints between the bricks as they can erode and or wear away over time.  You might have to have them tuck-pointed, but other than that, I love all brick structures!

Kurt F. · Answer

@Charmaine M. -- any pics?  Year built?

@John Hickey -- nice post.  And few on this site would know who he is, but your linking to Joe Lstiburek articles wins you the internet for the day.

Referring to solid brick walls you said "One disadvantage would be energy efficiency of the exterior wall system."

Definitely a couple ways to looks at this, as it appears you are learning.  A multi-wythe mass wall has so many properties and advantages that can often easily outweigh concerns over the single issue of an apparently low R-value, and the risks associated with blindly adding insulation to a mass wall.  Your linked article describes several of them.

Any time you add insulation to a wall you are moving the location of the dew point within that wall, which can easily cause major problems.

John Hickey · Answer

@Charmaine M.

Its all about the numbers when you buy.  You need to make that decision on your own. In my own situation buying that place in Brooklyn is the best transaction I've ever been involved with to date.

I wouldn't reccomend not buying a building because it's brick.  One call to an agent will tell you the insurance cost.  I pay(well my tenants pay) 1600 a year for a three family non owner occupied.

I wouldn't let just anyone work on the facade of a building, but there are skilled people out there that can be found and paid 150 a day. One trick I learned is to drive around the area and look for work being done similar to what you need.  In this case brick pointing.  Very common in Brooklyn and Queens.  Look for a brick building getting pointed and talk to the workers doing quality work and try to get contact info.  Sometimes the contractor is there and you can speak to them too negotiation is key. Other times I get the laborer and pay them the day rate for their trade.  I learned to keep in mind with all the work associated with becoming the "contractor" sometimes it's best to just pay the real contractor what they want.

If the work is high off the ground and you have a low tolerance for risk a licensed contractor would be the best bet.  My insurance company gave me guidelines for what I could do on my own with a part time helper(35 hours a week)and still be covered.  I would make sure you find out what your insurance company will cover.

Randy Fung · Answer

HI Charmaine,

Thanks for this post to trigger all these experience discussions on brick house. I was thinking of investing in a brick house next and learned about the insurance cost and heating bills.

Thanks every one.

Randy

Janusz Zee · Answer

Hi, in my opinion I think brick homes are always better/stronger. They also look a lot nicer, if you have a picture of the home I can definitely tell you if the brick is in good condition.

Colleen F. · Answer

Don't get discouraged about it. There are plusses and minuses, people are just giving you their experiences. Check it out and weigh the pros and cons.   You may not have to paint but your insurance may be higher.   Heating may be higher but are you are in rehab mode so you can address.  I think the best thing you can do is get good numbers on the points people are making and go from there.  Frankly if the rentals around it are also brick your tenants heat costs will be similar to others in the area.  Get a good inspector and find out what your issues may be for this particular brick house. I personally like the stone building and am thinking about a cash value insurance policy since if it burns down we are unlikely to rebuild with stone.

Charmaine M. · Answer

@Colleen F....great points, never thought about the insurance might be higher for brick.

I'm in NYC and i think getting "day laborers" to do brick work might not be an issue @ least i hope so.

After hearing so many different  opinions, i am wondering if getting this house is a good idea.

Colleen F. · Answer

I can't comment on brick but we have a stone multifamily and one issue is insurance for replacement cost is high but because it is older and because the workers to replace it are fewer these days. I imagine it would be similar for brick.   I like not having to paint. I find it a bit damper but it is a bit old.

Brick House....?

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