My first deal, woo hoo

My first deal, woo hoo

Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes

Ok, I am working on my first deal. I know the guy, for about 5 years now, a regular customer where I work at and he is also my Tech Advisor for my Surveillance Camera biz if anyone needs assistance right away. He has a house and from what I understand it was converted to a duplex, Upstairs converted to an apartment with a seperate entrance, dual Electrical Box so they can pay for their own Electricity. He told me last night he is willing to sell it (my very first motivated seller, lol). He told me that it was Appraised at $150,000.00 in the condition that it's in. Ok I hear that my short hairs start curling (on my neck) and my hair is pretty short right now lol.... I talked to my GC and we both agreed that there maybe a lot of work that needs to be done to it. I do not know what the ARV will be, just what he told me. I am assuming that there will be a lot of work. My question seeing that it was Appraised at $150,000.00, I am assuming that is FMV not ARV seeing it was said "in the condition that its in", now in order to get the ARV do I add the costs of repairs into that to make it more then $150,000 (as long as it don't go over the FMV)? I have not had a chance to look at it yet, so I am going to assume that the repairs are extensive and may have to offer less then $150,000.00.

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  • Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2013 · 658 posts · 315 votes
    12y

    You still have a lot of work to do before you you call this a deal or start celebrating.

    Before you spend a lot of time digging into all the details figure out if it will cash flow. What are the rents? The 50% rule would be Ok as a screening method to see if it is worth pursuing as a buy and hold. Then you will need to really dig into the real numbers, vacancy,expenses, etc.

    Is this a legal duplex or did he just convert it?

    The ARV is what similar duplexes in good condition (converted single family homes in similar neighborhoods) have sold for recently. It might be hard to find good comps for this, mabybe not, I don't know your area. Hopefully your purchase price plus rehab costs come in far below the ARV, in which case it could be a flip. A common flipping rule is you offer 70% of ARV minus the cost of rehab.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Thanks @Brant Richardson , I have to assume its a legal conversion seeing what our State Laws are. Anytime someone does any kind of work that requires Electrical work an Inspector has to come out to the house to inspect it. I worked last night so am a bit brain dead so to speak, but I do know that part of the law, one of the things I am really careful about when I have to put in a junction box for my Surveillance Cameras, the City Inspector has to come out and inspect it all before I can finish the install and get it set up. The guy, when he heard I have done Real Estate Investments before wanted me to consider buying his house a couple of years back (after the RE Market tanked) or at least let him know of anyone interested in buying it (as I said a really motivated seller). My main concern is the condition, my wife wants me to consider buying it for ourselves and rent out the upstairs apartment, to pay for the mortgage lol.... I may consider that as an option. If its not to bad in of a condition that is. I was wondering though if I go backwards to figure out the purchase price (what I want to offer him) versus the FMV (or the ARV). As I said I am a bit tired so I hope everyone excuse me and understand what I am trying to ask. :)

  • Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2013 · 658 posts · 315 votes
    12y

    @Richard Gaston

    Other than the question about what ARV is, I guess I don't understand what you are trying to ask.

    Your wife actually has a great idea, assuming its an area you are ok with living in (if the wife approves I'm sure you do). A lot of people start out with a building 2-4 units, you come up with the down payment, your tenants pay the monthly expenses. If you can get seller financing that allows you to have little or no down payment that might be even better.

    A lot of people analyze a deal like this as though they were not going to live in it, even if they have full intentions of doing so. You want to make sure you get positive cash flow. Rent for both units minus mortgage payment - property tax - insurance -10% maintenance - 10% vacancy = cash flow. Many would recommend you subtract 10% for property management in case you ever wanted to have a property manager run it for you. You want your cash flow to be at lease $200, $100 for each unit.

    The 50% rule I mentioned above is a very quick way of getting an idea of whether it might cash flow. Take the rent of the two units put together, divide that in half, then subtract the mortgage payment. If you come up with $200 then figure out the real numbers.

    Like you said, a big consideration will be figuring out how much rehab it really needs. The other is what the real ARV is.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Brant Richardson Thanks I will figure that in. As I said earlier I work a graveyard shift so when I posted the questions its right after I have gotten off work, like now for instance lol, so am basically a bit tired and out of sorts. Ok let me try this once more and hopefully I can explain it better.

    It has been aprraised at $150,000 in the condition that its in, so I am assuming that is the Fair Market Value right now of what the property is currently worth. Now I am assuming that it needs repairs seeing what was said, "in the condition that it's in". And if that was what the appraised value is then I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that it's not the After Repair Value. Now in order to get a good Comp, I know I need to actually see the house as well as other houses in that same area to actually get a good Comp of what the house is worth or close to it. Now do I add the costs of any and all repairs to get a more accurate ARV, or do I just subtract the repair cost from the Appraised Value, assuming that I do not go over what the Fair Market Value of the Same or like house in that area. I know basically what the rent rates are FOR this area but I figure I would have to also do a rent analysis for that area in order to charge a favorable rent amount, not to much that I won't get any tenents but still enough in order to pay the mortgage if I decide to live there myself. My wife's reasoning is we have lived in this Apartment for a bit over 13 years now (granted we are one of the only longest tenents, with the exception of one other tenent, that has lived here and we are treated like Kings and Queens here) but its one of THOSE neighborhoods, basically our son has been locked up inside the apartment all these years not being allowed to go outside except to go to school. He needs to have a place to play, and her reasoning is that a house has a yard, then he can get out to play like a normal 12 year old. Ok, sorry about being long winded here lol...If we do live there then we may not need a PM so that is one cost that can be eliminated, but I may still consider it at a later date if I decide to buy and hold other houses that I may want to rent, now should I also consider myself as a tenent to figure rent in both units?

  • Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2013 · 658 posts · 315 votes
    12y

    You need to see the appraisal. What is the date on it? What does it list as areas needing repair? There should be a list of comparable properties that you can check out as well. Are the rents as high as they should be? If not then your friend may be undervaluing the place.

    Like you said, you need to look at it for yourself to see what repairs are needed. If it needs substantial repairs then you should be buying well below the ARV minus repairs.

    Figure out if it is a good investment with both units rented. If it is good, then figure what the monthly cost would be with you living in one unit. If you pay a lot less than you currrently do and your kid is safe to go outside then it sounds like a good thing for you.

    If you post up the actual numbers (rent, tax, etc.) I'm sure others will chime in on whether they think this looks like a good deal.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Brant Richardson Thanks, as soon as I get the comps and the figures I will post it. At the time when he first told me the RE Market had crashed and I was a bit dubious about even considering the deal or even suggesting to anyone about it. But he still has it and he offered it to me again so I may consider it, sounds like a good deal, but as I said I am going to look at it with my GC to see what kind of work it needs to be done and how much it will cost me. Do a rental comp also to see what the fair rent rate is for that area, hopefully high enough to where I can actually make the mortgage payments or at least the majority of it where I can cover the rest without sweating the bills lol....

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Ok, an Update on the deal, he finally showed up where I work at, got the address to the house so my General Contractor and I can look at it, Its up in Bremerton, WA for any Investor that lives in Washington State. I asked one question, I asked what is the lowest he would take on the deal, he told me which I am not going to disclose because I may just flip the contract for $135,000.00. But basically his answer told me two things, one it really needs to be rehabbed and the second it has a high Equity. My General Contractor and I are going to look at it Tuesday Afternoon to see the extent of the repairs, it has been zoned as a Multi-Family Duplex so basically the end buyer can live in one part of the house and rent the upstairs seeing its set up as an apartment to pay for the mortgage. Wife said it was to far for us to live at lol, go figure but I am not set up to do an extentisive rehab even if I live in it myself. But I am sure the numbers are justified from what he told me, it has been appraised As Is $150,000.00 he lowballed it way less then that, and I am sure I can get $135,000.00 just for the contract and the investor can still make a nice healthy profit margin even after doing the repairs.

    Now my question though any investor in Lakewood/Tacoma, Washington area know of any good Title company or Real Estate Attorney that does Double Closings? Because if the numbers work right I should be able to close on the deal for what he is asking, in fact I was going to offer him what he lowballed at lol and he wants to close fast. Sounds like one of those Rare deals everyone keeps talking about lmao.....High Equity and a fast closing lol....

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Bremerton, WA · Member since 2013 · 494 posts · 142 votes
    12y

    Hi Richard - I'm a RE broker in Bremerton, WA and an investor. PM me and I can send you title co. names and other info you might need.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Stephanie Dupuis I can not seem to be able to, for some reason Bigger Pockets can not find your name is the message I am getting (Could not find conversation recipients) if you can PM me and we'll go from there. Thanks

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Ok, seems like my first deal don't seem as high as I was hoping for, oh well. I was hoping that if repaired I could sell the house for better then $200K, after a broker did some comps, it looks like I will be lucky if I can sell it between $150K pushing if I am lucky $180k after repairs, which means if I were to just flip the contract I would be lucky if I can get $125K if that, which won't work, without looking I am guessing the repairs are a little more extensive then that from what I was told, which means if I were to take it on I would have to offer to bid at $80k and be lucky if I can get $85k for the contract if even that just to make sure the investor who purchases it makes a decent profit after the repairs, I just may decide to let another investor have it without getting a contract on it I don't want to fail on my first deal.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Ok, an update. ITS NOW OFFICIAL, I am making my first deal lol... And its not as bad as I thought it was, only minor repairs needed upstairs bathroom needs to be finished and the rest is just general maintance so at the most, $10k in repairs if that, maybe less. This is going to be fun lol....

  • Mike SumskyPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Bremerton, WA · Member since 2012 · 116 posts · 61 votes
    12y

    Richard, did you get the property under contract?  I'm an investor here in Bremerton and own several duplexes.  I'm looking to purchase more, so touch base with me if you've got a deal you'd like to assign.

  • Real Estate Agent · Charleston, SC · Member since 2013 · 424 posts · 99 votes
    12y

    I'd love to hear where you're at with this now. You were a bit all over the place. Did you look at comparable rents to check if you could cash flow it positively with vacancy calculated in, etc? Assuming you did all that, did you then backtrack and go through the scope of work, rehab costs, 70% rule, etc? Remember that a property should cash flow 1% of the total purchase price per month! After all other expenses. So that would be $2,000/month combined. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Minneapolis , MN · Member since 2014 · 169 posts · 33 votes
    12y
    Mike, you have made a lot of progress. it am sure its a great journey. Good luck
  • Real Estate Agent · Charleston, SC · Member since 2013 · 424 posts · 99 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jason Eyerly:

    I'd love to hear where you're at with this now. You were a bit all over the place. Did you look at comparable rents to check if you could cash flow it positively with vacancy calculated in, etc? Assuming you did all that, did you then backtrack and go through the scope of work, rehab costs, 70% rule, etc? Remember that a property should cash flow 1% of the total purchase price per month! After all other expenses. So that would be $2,000/month combined. 

     Sorry, that's inaccurate since the whole thing won't cost you $200k.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Bremerton, WA · Member since 2013 · 494 posts · 142 votes
    12y

    Great to hear this Richard! I know the repairs was a huge hang up.

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Sorry about not posting anything for a bit, after I ran some numbers I couldn't get them to work right so I asked a RE Agent/Broker to help me out with this one, she was very helpful and did some comps for me. After she looked it over and ran some numbers come to find out I needed to get a lower price, way lower then what he was asking. I was just getting ready to get it under contract, but after the Broker gave me the numbers and I figured it up to the ARV, the numbers starting working right.

    @Mike Sumsky  if you want to look at it I think I still have the address somewhere, email me at [email protected] I will be more then happy to let you give it a try, word of warning though he wants about $60k higher then what we determined it was worth, he said it was appraised at $150K and that was at the time the Real Estate Bubble burst AND about the time prices of Real Estate in that area oh heck all over for that matter, was coming down.

    @Jason Eyerly  I was trying to do the 70% 30% before I asked a RE Agent/Broker to help me out, the numbers were just not adding up, after she looked it over and then got me some comparisons we determine the best course of action at a lower price, once we figured the ball park price would be at, the numbers started coming together to where everyone would win, but he didn't want to play ball lol...

  • Investor · Lakewood, WA · Member since 2014 · 119 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Jason Eyerly  Sorry if I seem all over the place, sometimes I get excited like a kid (lol I am 56 this month), even more so when I have been up all night working at my J.O.B. lol. I tried to talk the guy down to working price that would work for my numbers to work right and still make a decent profit, and have another investor make a decent profit after they fix the bathroom. The way the guy made it sound I had assumed that the house was a 2-Story but come to find out it was a one-story Tudor with a finished basement changed to an 1 bedroom Apartment. which explained to me how the upstairs was a 2 bedroom/1 bath where the downstairs was a 1 Bedroom/1 bath. The main floor bathroom is the one that needs to be repaired, repairs should not be over $10,000 plus from what I understand the title is in someone elses name as well, so unless I could talk to the other person as well, which I was and am assuming is his wife, I couldn't really negotiate the price without her ok.

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