Can bank require list of rehab items plus receipts?

Can bank require list of rehab items plus receipts?

Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes

Hey all - I am livid today! Maybe you can either calm me down, or tell me I am rightfully enraged.

We have an FHA buyer for a rehab, and among the hoops we've jumped through so far are the requests from an inspection plus two FHA appraisers (actually not a big deal, just time-consuming). We took care of everything they wanted done. Last night, the buyers' agent forwards an email from the bank w/an update and summary (never mind that we were supposed to be closing yesterday and ran around getting our ducks in a row well ahead of time, but I digress).

The email included this line:

My immediate reaction has been that this info is none of their damn business. They've had an inspector and two FHA appraisers out to the property. The buyer has an experienced Realtor. Many sets of expert eyes have been out there and inspected every inch of the place. It obviously appraised, so why does the itemized list of improvements matter? Clearly, the house underwent an extensive renovation - and even if it hadn't, again, it freakin' appraised. Additionally, we've owned it since Nov. 14; this isn't a case of an investor buying a property, doing nothing to it, and sticking it back on the market in 2 weeks (although, once again - if it appraises, it appraises, imho).

I also feel that my contract and what I paid to my contractor is proprietary information. How is the price of the rehab relevant to anything? I'm happy to provide them with permits and the sign-off from the city inspector, which they also asked for. That is relevant.

I'm almost inclined to acquiesce in part and give them a list of what was done but no receipts. Or to provide the Scope of Work and, if I also submit the invoices, to redact the pricing info.

What say you, BP members?

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Karin Crompton:
Thanks, @J Scott

@J Scott

Don't know if you've seen this before, but this is how I handle things:

10 Rules to Improve Your Sales Closing Success

1. The absolute best thing you can do is to have the buyer use a mortgage broker that you know and trust. When buyers use our broker, we know upfront if the buyer is qualified and whether we should even consider the offer. If our broker tells us he can get a loan done for our buyer, it will close 100% of the time (at least it has so far) and almost always on schedule. Our broker is that good, and you need to find yourself a broker who is that good — and get your buyers to use him. At very least, require your buyers to get pre-qualified with your broker. And if the buyer doesn't use your broker to get the loan, call the buyer's mortgage broker to chat with them to make sure they are familiar with any flip rules that might be applicable and ask about the buyer's qualifications and what are the broker's biggest concerns about getting the loan done. If it's not the broker you recommended, they probably won't tell you anything worthwhile, but you may be able to pick up something from asking some questions.

2. Get the maximum amount of earnest money as possible. While everyone likes to be optimistic about the deal the day the contract is signed, I can't count the number of times I've looked back a few weeks later and wished I had gotten a whole lot more earnest money.

3. Limit the buyer's financing contingency to 21 days (or less). There is no reason it should take longer than that to get a loan commitment letter for the buyer (regardless if it's FHA, VA or conventional). If the broker balks at the 21 days for financing contingency, make the buyer use another broker — there is either an issue with the buyer's finances or the broker isn't very good. Lazy brokers are your worst enemy.

4. Keep the closing date to 30 days (or less). Unless you live in a state where a 30 day closing is really tough (like New York), there's no reason it should take longer than that to get a loan funded and get the deal closed. Good mortgage brokers can get FHA, conventional and VA loans done in three weeks (four weeks tops), and that's even when two appraisals are needed. At VERY MOST, give 5 weeks to close the contract if there is a good reason for the long wait.

5. Did the broker order an appraisal relatively quickly? A sure sign that there is going to be an issue is when the broker drags their feet on ordering an appraisal. Buyers don't want to spend money until they're confident they'll close. Put in the contract that the broker will agree to order the appraisal within 48 hours of the inspection contingency being cleared — this will force the broker to keep the process moving.

6. The DAY the financing contingency is up, you should receive a loan commitment letter from the broker. No commitment letter, no deal — unless the buyer is willing to put up more earnest money. Put this contingency in the contract if it's not already there (it's standard in my state contract).

7. If the buyer requests an extension of the closing for any reason, ask the agent and broker how confident they are that the extension will be long enough to get the deal closed. 9 out of 10 times, they'll tell you that they are certain or near-certain the extension will be enough time to conclude the deal. Reply with, "If you're certain the extension will be sufficient to get this deal closed, I'll grant the extension if the buyer puts up additional non-refundable earnest money. Since they'll need the money for the downpayment at closing anyway and since you are certain the deal will close, there's no reason the buyer can't put the money in escrow today, right?" How much extra earnest money to ask for is up to you, but anything up to the entire downpayment is reasonable, especially if the agent/broker tells you they are "certain" it will close. Try not to give more than 7 extra days in the first extension. [By the way, this is the best way to find out if the broker is really "certain" about the deal -- if the buyer refuses to put up more earnest money, you can be pretty sure the deal isn't going to close and the broker already knows it, which is why they won't suggest the buyer put up more money.]

8. If the buyer requests a second extension, do it under the following two conditions (and don't give more than an additional 7 extra days):

8a. The buyer puts up the entire downpayment as non-refundable earnest money (if they haven't already); and

8b. You get a "kickout clause" added to the contract, where you can start marketing the house again, and if you find another buyer you'd like to go with, the current buyer has 48 hours to get a clear to close, or you can go with the new buyer and keep any earnest money.

9. If the buyer requests a third extension, you have two choices:

9a. With the kickout clause, you can pretty much extend as long as you want, as you always have the option to go with another buyer if one comes along. The only drawback is that you don't get the earnest money until you ultimately terminate the contract (though that shouldn't be your goal); or

9b. The other option is to terminate the contract and tell the buyer that if they figure out their financing issue and can get things resolved, you're happy to sign a new contract and apply the earnest money from the original contract, but you'll have a right to renegotiate terms and perhaps ask for additional earnest money for the new contract.

10. Throughout the process, call the mortgage broker (get the seller's written permission to contact the broker as part of the contract) once per week (Tuesday or Thursdays tend to be the best) and get a status on the loan. Ask what has been done, what the next steps are, if there are any issues that have come up, when the broker thinks the loan will go to underwriting, etc. In addition, once the loan is in underwriting, have the broker tell you every time the underwriter comes back with conditions, and what SPECIFICALLY those conditions are. This will keep you updated on exactly how close you are to the closing and what is holding it up.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Canal Winchester, OH · Member since 2014 · 151 posts · 55 votes
    12y

    Hmmm that is very interesting! I am working with a FHA 203k Rehab right now for one of my clients and we have to give a list of work and price quote to get the loan but the sellers have nothing to do with that. If you have already closed it should not matter as to what you spent as long as the house appraised and the FHA inspector/aprraser blessed off on the house!

  • Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes
    12y

    @Jeremy Davis 26th but something has hung it up for another week or so. And now they're asking for that info.

    I think @J Scott addressed this in a blog on his website, which I just found: http://www.123flip.com/education/fha-90-day-rule/

    Regardless, I am still livid. And wondering whether I can redact the pricing info.

  • Canal Winchester, OH · Member since 2014 · 151 posts · 55 votes
    12y

    @Karin Crompton

    That is exactly what i would do. send them a list of the work done and the name of your GC that was used to supervise the rehab. And i don't know if the GC did or DID NOT give you a break down of all the pricing.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Sorry, not the way it works. FHA guarantees the loan, they don't make it, that is a lender's requirement. Paid receipts means less chance of liens can be filed if they match the contract price. Lien waivers are acceptable, but receipts indicate quality of materials too and that they were paid for. Shows there were not amounts were over paid and kicked back to some extent in an audit, it's an audit document for the file. .You can be sure that the information is not made public!

    Appraisers then have verified amounts to consider as costs of improvements.

    The requirement is customary, the other option is don't work with the lender and let them say no and you can say next. Does sound like the lender is over cautious, but it is prudent and common. :)

  • Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes
    12y

    Thanks, @Bill Gulley

    @Bill GulleyGood thread here as well: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/84092-buyers-bank-asking-for-my-purchase-price-plus-rehab-costs

    If the underwriter wants a sense of the profit - and how incredibly subjective is that, btw? - to determine what's "reasonable" - then do I also submit a summary of materials purchased, holding costs, everything?

    And any idea why this would have come up at the 11th hour?

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    Most banks have been burnt on sellers saying this work was done when it was not. I see you have a problem providing the info to the bank and the bank should not loan to you because it does raise a red flag. Remember the bank will send out a 3rd party to verify that a license GC did the work and the price was not jack up.

    Joe Gore

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
    12y

    @Karin Crompton - It's never happened to me, but I have heard of it happening to others. But I agree with you that it should not be necessary, and it should not be relevant. The price that you paid, and the amount of the rehab should not matter at all as long as the property appraises and passes the inspection. But sometimes you have to play the game. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it, and there would be no real money in it.

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    12y

    @Karin Crompton my initial thought on reading the title of the post was "yes, the bank can ask for anything they want - it's up to them to decide who they do business with and how.

    That said, I do agree that this request seems unreasonable (although I'm sure @Bill Gulley is right in that it probably does add a measure of certainty for the bank and thus may lower risk). I also don't think that this a common request and I'd be curious to hear how many BPers have run into this.

    Personally, this would rub me the wrong way too and I'd redact the pricing info, but only if I were be prepared to let the deal die over this (which will depend on how many other options you have).

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Karin Crompton:
    Thanks, @Bill Gulley

    @Bill GulleyGood thread here as well: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/84092-buyers-bank-asking-for-my-purchase-price-plus-rehab-costs

    If the underwriter wants a sense of the profit - and how incredibly subjective is that, btw? To determine what's "reasonable" - then do I also submit a summary of materials purchased, holding costs, everything?

    And any idea why this would have come up at the 11th hour?

    The more information you give the better Karin. If you do it with a smile that's even better. Reasonable is about 15% over all costs, some leeway can be added, it is a judgment call but they don't really care what you make, they want to know the seller didn't land a naïve buyer who overpaid in a property with an inflated sale price, if it's reasonable and justified you should have no problems. :)

  • Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes
    12y

    With a smile, @Bill Gulley? You are pushing it today. ;-)

    Ok, I get it - they want to prevent fraud, they want to make sure good work was done. And this - "...they want to know the seller didn't land a naïve buyer who overpaid in a property with an inflated sale price."

    If the sales price was inflated, wouldn't the appraisers tell them so? If there are no comps, there are no comps. And if there ARE comps - well then, it doesn't matter whether I replaced a light bulb or gutted the place during a rehab, my property is still comparable to these others.

    And thanks, @Joe Gore - I can see that angle as well.

    I don't know if you meant me, specifically, with this comment: "I see you have a problem providing the info to the bank and the bank should not loan to you because it does raise a red flag."

    I'm not the one getting the loan. And yes, I do have a philosophical problem w/providing the info to the bank in the manner it was asked for, for the reason you state here: "Remember the bank will send out a 3rd party to verify that a license GC did the work and the price was not jack up." So they sent out 3 experts to inspect the property - do they trust the experts or not?

    And finally - my contractor gives me good prices (and we use good materials). So if my spread is more than the next guy b/c I found a contractor who does a good job for less money, is the appraisal suddenly in jeopardy?

    Speaking of which, the profit is more like 23% or so, Bill G. I hope that's acceptable to the lender.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Karin, I have never sent anyone out to verify a CG as was pointed out, that is what is done in a final inspection by the appraiser before the closing. No one inspects after closings, they do review files and audit them, but there are no more property inspections. They simply see if the requirements have been met and in a workmanlike manner. Depends on the market, 23% may be fine, it also depends on how long you held the property, don't sweat the small stuff. Yes, just smile :)

  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    12y
    My question is, are the buyers not very credit worthy if they have to use an FHA loan? Can they do a conventional loan where there won't be these types of issues.
  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Johnson:
    My question is, are the buyers not very credit worthy if they have to use an FHA loan? Can they do a conventional loan where there won't be these types of issues.

    FHA can dip down on credit, but usually the issue is the down payment, not so much on credit, conventional is more out of pocket than FHA. :)

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Karin: Even if you provide receipts and all cost info the loan still might not go through. I've seen this happen with perfectly fine rehabs with relatively thin profit #s (but not to me). It's one thing for them to ask for permits as they relate to possible future liens and safety issues and I have no issue with that.

    But materials and labor cost information is subjective as is mark-up and profit. I personally don't believe a lender has the capacity to analyze the info in a useful way. Two appraisals and a home inspection is the norm these days and that's a lot of professional opinions.

    So I suggest being prepared for the possibility that if you compromise it might not get the desired results anyway. That's what back-up buyers are for.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I personally don't believe a lender has the capacity to analyze the info in a useful way. Two appraisals and a home inspection is the norm these days and that's a lot of professional opinions.

    Perhaps there is a lack of seeing a much bigger picture than through the eyes of an investor.

    The capacity to analyze? The lender sees 500, a 1000 maybe 5000 at a wholesale banking level of construction loans in a year, an investor doesn't come close to that in their investing career, if a lender has 5 just years in doing these loans, no small time investor has a clue as to analysis they may do nor do they have as much experience in crunching numbers on a project.

    The lenders see contracts from different sources, they have probably seen deals from every licensed GC in their area and have access to every one in their region, the investor deals with a hand full of CGs, many just a couple. They know more about what contractors pull as profits much better than any investor using one will, we have to recognize that even contractors get loans and turn over their financials and jobs and estimates to these same lenders. It's a matter of intelligence, lender intelligence, not IQ, but information intelligence. You'll never have the information they do.

    Lenders have data beyond that contained in the MLS, they have thousands of contracts, bids, price ranges, market levels, as well as historical data that an investor is never exposed to. They can look up the cost of skid of 2X4s quicker than most investors can. Lucky for the investor that lenders use general market data so if you get a deal on a skid of 2X4s that can be profit, but they know where the line is on a quarterly basis.

    I'd suggest if there is anyone who can assess a construction rehab or new project and being closer to actual it certainly won't be the investor type, it would be an experienced lender who has about a 1000 more times the experience.

    You need to look at lenders as partners, not obstructionists trying to kill you deals. Often when a lender says no, they are actually doing the buyer a favor, they could be doing the seller a favor too in their requirements.

    Learn what and why they do things, chances are they have much more knowledge in what you do than you may realize. A really good lender/loan officer can teach you and when they have more confidence in you then you'll see these perceived restrictions lifted somewhat.

    This data they have access to also tells them that professional opinions not only come in error but that such may be manipulated in some cases. :)

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    This is common SOP for FHA lenders on flips. Happens every day, all day, embrace it. Provide the greatest detail possible. Appraisal happen near the end of underwriting, so you shouldn't have any buyer qualification issues at this point, but it's possible. This lender seems to be one of the more conservative ones.. FHA requires 2 appraisals when the second Closing is within 90 days of the first closing. Some lenders, apparently this one, require 2 appraisals when the second Contract execution is within 90 days of the first closing, so the rehab details requirement is not a surprise.

  • Contractor · Tigard, OR · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 25 votes
    12y
    Don't know if this will help but I'm on the contractor side to a lot of FHA loan rehabs requirements. With my experience I send the owners an invoice with pricing to pay me and once I get payment send another invoice zeroed out with the list of work done. Then the future owner and bank knows the contractor is paid on full and won't lien the house and has the list of items to put in their file. I don't think to unreasonable, seems a little more incompetence more then anything being they are late.
  • Lender · Bellevue WA & Orange County, CA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Karin Crompton:
    Hey all - I am livid today! Maybe you can either calm me down, or tell me I am rightfully enraged.

    We have an FHA buyer for a rehab, and among the hoops we've jumped through so far are the requests from an inspection plus two FHA appraisers (actually not a big deal, just time-consuming). We took care of everything they wanted done. Last night, the buyers' agent forwards an email from the bank w/an update and summary (never mind that we were supposed to be closing yesterday and ran around getting our ducks in a row well ahead of time, but I digress).

    The email included this line:

    My immediate reaction has been that this info is none of their damn business. They've had an inspector and two FHA appraisers out to the property. The buyer has an experienced Realtor. Many sets of expert eyes have been out there and inspected every inch of the place. It obviously appraised, so why does the itemized list of improvements matter? Clearly, the house underwent an extensive renovation - and even if it hadn't, again, it freakin' appraised. Additionally, we've owned it since Nov. 14; this isn't a case of an investor buying a property, doing nothing to it, and sticking it back on the market in 2 weeks (although, once again - if it appraises, it appraises, imho).

    I also feel that my contract and what I paid to my contractor is proprietary information. How is the price of the rehab relevant to anything? I'm happy to provide them with permits and the sign-off from the city inspector, which they also asked for. That is relevant.

    I'm almost inclined to acquiesce in part and give them a list of what was done but no receipts. Or to provide the Scope of Work and, if I also submit the invoices, to redact the pricing info.

    What say you, BP members?

    Hi Karin,

    The above you mentioned used to be the case with FHA flips that were probably ear marked to be sold to Wells Fargo as one of their secondary market conditions was two appraisals if the sales price was 20% or higher than the acquisition cost when documenting the 24 month chain of title.

    I understand your frustration, they (Wells) just want to make sure that banks on the origination front do their proper due dilligence with valuation and documentation of the value to ensure that they will not have to buy back that paper from the correspondent lender (unless your dealing directly with Wells Fargo).

    Its hard unless you ask but if you find a banker who is originating loans and directly selling/servicing their government loans to Ginnie Mae(GNMA) then they may not require you to have the two appraisal and additional procedures because its not necessarily a GNMA requirement but rather banks on the front lines trying to reduce their risk and requiring these additional steps from you to protect their behinds.

    Generally you may find that on Flips they may need the appraiser to go out and certify that the property also passes FHA's health and safety standards as well so dont be surprised (double strapped water heater, CO detectors, etc).

    In the past I've had to show excel break downs of work done, invoices, bill of sale's, and others too but that was back when New American Funding sold the paper to WF (not any longer =).

  • Lender · Bellevue WA & Orange County, CA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Johnson:
    My question is, are the buyers not very credit worthy if they have to use an FHA loan? Can they do a conventional loan where there won't be these types of issues.

    This is a common perception in the public that FHA means a buyer is credit poor or seen as an unfavorable buyer/borrower. This may be true in some cases while not true in all cases. Conventional would have one appraisal but may still require the documentation of value increase.

    Here are some examples of advantages of FHA that are not allowed with conventional financing:

    - FHA counts Alimony as a reduction of income rather than a monthly obligation which is what conventional financing would do. Conventional financing counts it as another monthly obligation or similar to another mortgage payment to qualify for which makes it harder for a borrower using conventional to qualify unless they made a much higher income. So a buyer may agree to take higher FHA MI and costs just to obtain the opportunity to get into a property even despite having perfect credit and a large down payment of 20%+

    - FHA can qualify up to 46.99% front ratio (just housing/mtg) and up to 56.99% back ratio when considering proposed mtg/tax/ins and other obligations together. So a buyer with perfect credit and a large down payment may utilize FHA just because they have limited income or anticipate future income being higher so that within a year they may refinance out of FHA into conventional. Conventional only allows a borrower to qualify up to 45% and if they have a large down and 12 months reserves on a lucky sunny day they might get up to 50% DTI.

    - FHA can qualify on their 5/1 Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) at a payment based just on the starting note rate while conventional 5/1 ARM's have to qualify at the starting note rate + 2.00% fully amortized payment which rocks your DTI ratios and makes it a lot harder to qualify for.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Albert Bui:
    Originally posted by @Marcus Johnson:
    My question is, are the buyers not very credit worthy if they have to use an FHA loan? Can they do a conventional loan where there won't be these types of issues.

    This is a common perception in the public that FHA means a buyer is credit poor or seen as an unfavorable buyer/borrower. This may be true in some cases while not true in all cases. Conventional would have one appraisal but may still require the documentation of value increase.

    Here are some examples of advantages of FHA that are not allowed with conventional financing:

    - FHA counts Alimony as a reduction of income rather than a monthly obligation which is what conventional financing would do. Conventional financing counts it as another monthly obligation or similar to another mortgage payment to qualify for which makes it harder for a borrower using conventional to qualify unless they made a much higher income. So a buyer may agree to take higher FHA MI and costs just to obtain the opportunity to get into a property even despite having perfect credit and a large down payment of 20%+

    - FHA can qualify up to 46.99% front ratio (just housing/mtg) and up to 56.99% back ratio when considering proposed mtg/tax/ins and other obligations together. So a buyer with perfect credit and a large down payment may utilize FHA just because they have limited income or anticipate future income being higher so that within a year they may refinance out of FHA into conventional. Conventional only allows a borrower to qualify up to 45% and if they have a large down and 12 months reserves on a lucky sunny day they might get up to 50% DTI.

    - FHA can qualify on their 5/1 Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) at a payment based just on the starting note rate while conventional 5/1 ARM's have to qualify at the starting note rate + 2.00% fully amortized payment which rocks your DTI ratios and makes it a lot harder to qualify for.

    Great FHA loan info Albert. I wasn't aware of the 46.99% to 56.99% ratios. Thanks for sharing!

  • CA · Member since 2011 · 762 posts · 182 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Albert Bui:
    Originally posted by @Marcus Johnson:
    My question is, are the buyers not very credit worthy if they have to use an FHA loan? Can they do a conventional loan where there won't be these types of issues.

    This is a common perception in the public that FHA means a buyer is credit poor or seen as an unfavorable buyer/borrower. This may be true in some cases while not true in all cases.

    I agree that need isn't always the reason for going FHA. Another reason folks that can qualify for conventional go FHA instead is because of the low down payment. If the economy takes a dump (a la 2008), the borrower minimizes losses...it's a smart business move.

  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    12y

    @Bill Gulley Which means you don't have any money if you have to go FHA, when conventional has less terms to meet and you'll owe less on your mortgage with a lower monthly payment.

  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    "If the economy takes a dump (a la 2008), the borrower minimizes losses...it's a smart business move."

    This qoute confuses me greatly because are you saying that if you don't put a lot of money into a property and the market goes to heck that your answer is you'd bail on it and take minimal losses? I guess I don't get that theory at all, because again to me that would mean you don't have a lot of disposable cash or investments to hold out until the market improves which it always does. I've never been one to agree with those who voluntarily break their promises to pay the bank back.

  • CA · Member since 2011 · 762 posts · 182 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Johnson:
    @Account Closed

    "If the economy takes a dump (a la 2008), the borrower minimizes losses...it's a smart business move."

    This qoute confuses me greatly because are you saying that if you don't put a lot of money into a property and the market goes to heck that your answer is you'd bail on it and take minimal losses? I guess I don't get that theory at all, because again to me that would mean you don't have a lot of disposable cash or investments to hold out until the market improves which it always does. I've never been one to agree with those who voluntarily break their promises to pay the bank back.

    Is it that it confuses you or that you don't agree with the motive. I'm not talking about myself specifically. FHA as far as I know isn't limited to low income people. I'm suggesting marginal dti ratios and lack of down payment aren't the only reasons people go FHA, some folks, not all, look at it as a means of limiting losses should the market turn down (yes, by walking away), while maintaining upside potential.

  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Morally I disagree with people walking away from their loans if they have the means to pay, regardless of what the market is doing. I guess I'm old school and I believe in paying debts that I promised.

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