Planning to start investing in Detroit - any one use Upside investments?

[Sunny Karen]

Hello BP community,

My family is evaluating a cash-flow market to get into - and we are close to finalizing on Detroit for various reasons (entry point, >1% RTP, strategic investments in parts of the city, ...)

Based on conversations in my local REI meetups, this will be our first time experimenting with BRRRR's in Detroit with the intent to hold onto the properties long-term. Plan is to buy SFH & Duplexes and start out small and scale quickly once we figure out the market. We have done a lot of reading here about Class-C properties and the risks that come with it, but haven't experienced it first-hand.

We have full-time W-2 jobs and cannot be local in the area and need a trusted team on the ground. Has anyone here worked with Upside investments (https://www.investinupside.com/about.html) - Nader Shariff team? It looks like they promise a hands-off approach (sourcing, rehab management, property management) but wanted to see any experiences here in the BP community.

Besides that, I understand there is no crystal ball, but for Detroit investing - what's stopping Detroit from going back to 2008 pricing in the future?

[Greg Scott]

I don't know that company but I have lived in Metro Detroit most of my life. 

Take a look at the properties they have listed on their site.  Then drop those into Google Maps and look around the neighborhood.  I noticed that almost every front door has bars. There is a reason everyone is doing that in those neighborhoods.

Compare those streets to others I would consider good rental neighborhoods.   I picked just a few streets at random in areas across the metro, where I would consider buying. Allen Park,  Ferndale, Redford, Saint Claire Shores

[Sunny Karen]

Thanks @Greg Scott.

I understand that Detroit is a very block-by-block city and those areas look like C-class neighboorhoods. Not being local to Detroit - I was expecting bars on the doors in most C-class areas, was it not your expectation?

Roughly by doing BRRR's around those areas it seems like I could get around 1.2 - 1.5% of Rent-to-Price ratio. That's only on paper though, and reality could be very different.

For the areas that you picked what price point and rent-to-price range do you target?
  

[Greg Scott]

Quote from @Sunny Karen:
For the areas that you picked what price point and rent-to-price range do you target?

The rent-to-price metric is a very dangerous one.  In any given city, the areas with the highest rent-to-price will usually be the areas with the highest crime, rougher neighborhoods, transitory tenants, where you will be lucky to collect any of that rent.  Your actual rent collections-to-price ratio will be terrible.

FWIW, the areas I provided you are ones I would consider C-class.  The areas where you were looking lean more D-class.

[Michael Smythe]

@Sunny Karen let's do a deep dive on this property listed as sold on their website:
15095 SORRENTO ST, DETROIT, MI 48227

if you do some searching on Zillow, the property does NOT show as sold and the last listing is from 03/17/2020. If this property had an actual LEGAL sale since then, can't think of a reason it would not show on Zillow.

Zillow also shows that the property is in the Bethune Neighborhood. We've ranked this as a Class D Neighborhood! Would NOT recommend anyone OOS buy in a Class D Neighborhood. 

Using Google Streetview (image capture 07/2022) to virtually drive the block, shows 5 vacant properties, one of which is significantly fire damaged. Actually, not that bad for a Class D Neighborhood, but there are so many BETTER streets in Detroit. Also, maybe they've been bought & renovated in the last 21 months.

The real challenge is the advertised $105k value.

Zillow shows a Zestimate of $59,600, RentZestimate $1,314
Redfin Estimate is $67,444, rent est $1,089
Realtor (dot com) estimates:
---Collateral Analytics $60,212
---Quantarium $49,728
---CoreLogic $67,264

Please show us where you can find ANYTHING that supports their $105k price!
FYI: none of the sites listed above know the condition of the property. So, they all assume average condition per the neighborhood sales prices only.

So, there's no way you'll be able to BRRR this property! Also, how much money do you think you'll lose if you pay their price of $98k?

One last challenge is their estimate of property taxes - they are all VERY low:(

Michigan has some interesting property taxes because there's a Taxable Value and a State Equalized Value, as well as Homestead and nonHomestead millage rates. 

Property taxes will INCREASE after you buy a property and often double or triple from what they are now. So, it's important to know what they'll be or you may not cashflow at all!

It's NOT rocket science to figure this all out and the state even provides a website where you can estimate what your property taxes will be AFTER your purchase. 

Full disclosure, the City of Detroit Assessor's office is not the best, so you often don't see as large as an increase as you should - but, there will be an increase!

PM us if you'd like more info...

[Travis Biziorek]

Hi Sunny, I can tell you a lot about Upside Investment because this is the company I personally work for/with. I'm a big part of Upside's strategic operations, deal analysis and working with our investors.

Nader is a personal friend, one of my best. We met in 2019 while we were both living in the Detroit area. I started working with him and his company, Upside, about 18 months ago. We are the best team in Detroit, hands down. And there are plenty of folks here on BP that we've worked with. Hopefully they respond.

In response to Michael's critique... a couple things need correcting. The property on Sorrento is NOT in a D Class area. It's the Bethune community just outside of Fitzgerald/Marygrove. Anyone that knows Detroit well knows it's C Class. 

Michael may not know this seeing as he works remotely for Drew Sygit, a property manager in Detroit, but it's most definitely a C Class area.

As for why the sale does not show on Zillow, it's quite simple. 99% of our deals are done off-market. They are not listed on Zillow. But if you were to go into county records you would see the sale there as well as the property transfer affidavit. 

And when it comes to Zillow estimates in Detroit... they're an absolute joke. Again, any experienced Detroit investors/operator knows this.

I have a $350,000 house in Morningside. The Zillow Estimate says it's worth $139,000. I have a duplex in Russell Woods I just completed. The appraisal came in at $193,000 and the Zillow Estimate says it's $102,000.

A great way to know someone doesn't understand the city of Detroit is if they are leaning on the Zillow estimate for value. You need to look at direct comps. That includes recent sales as well as currently listed properties in the direct vicinity.

Given there are so many distressed sales in Detroit on the same blocks as flips and nicely renovated homes, the Zestimate simply can't parse through the volatility of prices. 

Hopefully that helps clear things up. If you're looking for references I'd be happy to connect you with folks, as I'm sure whoever you've spoken with at Upside would do the same. Happy to find people that have existing BiggerPockets profiles/history as well.

Wrapping it all up... I personally have a very strong reputation in the Detroit market as well as here on BP. I would never put my name and reputation at risk working with someone who doesn't match it. 

Our entire team prides ourselves on being open, transparent, and honest. If a deal is mediocre, I will tell you that. If it doesn't fit your criteria, I will tell you that too. We're never trying to make a sale to simply make a sale because that's bad business. Our hope is that we do many deals together, not just one.

Again, happy to connect with you or anyone else if this simply spurs more questions or thoughts.

[Arsen Atanasovski]

Hello Sunny,

All honesty Bethune is a class D even the outskirts of Bethune are all C/D, Harmony, Fitzgerald, shoolcraft, Hubbell and Schulze. Don’t quote me on this I haven’t even gone on the website but reading Greg’s post I’ve known the guy for years and he is spot on! I own homes in Detroit I do not have bars on any doors or windows, I feel comfortable walking the street with my son if I wanted to. This is the type of streets you should be looking for. And again to be honest how will you brrrrr a deal that low of value? I understand you will rehab it and force the appreciation but how much? The market will only give as much as the comps are. So if your looking at Brrrrrs I would look at communities that have homes right next door to let’s say the target property to be selling or sold at $100k. In those areas you will brrrr no problem and there is a good market for rent. I would look at Bagley, Morningside, north end, east english, and the spill over of these neighborhoods. There is a lot of tension here :). My personal opinion I would tell you to have a close friend of partner that is locally here to be your eyes and feet. Second I would suggest you come by for a weekend and drive the city street by street and just take notes. For an entire weekend driving 10 hours a day you can get a lot of information down and grasp on the area and your plan to brrrrr. I know David Greene has a book but that book doesn’t work for Detroit lol. Good luck and if you need any more information DM I’m more then happy to help you.

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Arsen Atanasovski:

Hello Sunny,

All honesty Bethune is a class D even the outskirts of Bethune are all C/D, Harmony, Fitzgerald, shoolcraft, Hubbell and Schulze. Don’t quote me on this I haven’t even gone on the website but reading Greg’s post I’ve known the guy for years and he is spot on! I own homes in Detroit I do not have bars on any doors or windows, I feel comfortable walking the street with my son if I wanted to. This is the type of streets you should be looking for. And again to be honest how will you brrrrr a deal that low of value? I understand you will rehab it and force the appreciation but how much? The market will only give as much as the comps are. So if your looking at Brrrrrs I would look at communities that have homes right next door to let’s say the target property to be selling or sold at $100k. In those areas you will brrrr no problem and there is a good market for rent. I would look at Bagley, Morningside, north end, east english, and the spill over of these neighborhoods. There is a lot of tension here :). My personal opinion I would tell you to have a close friend of partner that is locally here to be your eyes and feet. Second I would suggest you come by for a weekend and drive the city street by street and just take notes. For an entire weekend driving 10 hours a day you can get a lot of information down and grasp on the area and your plan to brrrrr. I know David Greene has a book but that book doesn’t work for Detroit lol. Good luck and if you need any more information DM I’m more then happy to help you.

Arsen, we know each other. We also know that it isn't this easy. Parts of Bethune are surely class D. Heck, I can take you to parts of Morningside that are Class D. 

The deal in question, however (15095 Sorrento Ave), is clearly in a C Class area of Bethune. 

That's kind of the point here, right? Detroit is still very block-by-block. That's the challenge but it's also the opportunity because it is difficult to analyze. 

[Joseph Bui]

I started working with Nader and his team about 18 months ago. I’ve bought several properties from Nader, I’ve refinanced 2 and both have appraised for more than I paid, therefore getting most of those funds back in a loan. After purchasing, I flew to Detroit to evaluate my properties and meet Nader and his team. The properties were in c level neighborhoods as described. Renovation was on schedule and tenants were placed at the rents that were estimated. Have things gone perfectly with my investments? No. However his team has been open and transparent the whole way. When any issues arise, they are quick to respond and take care of the issue. 
I had such a good experience with Nader and Upside investments, I recently joined their team to help market their services. More than happy to walk anyone through my purchases with them in detail. 

[Matt Pennetti]

I work with Nader and highly recommend his company. I have properties in other states and was very skeptical to start because, it’s Detroit. But, Nader has worked with several friends and they all spoke highly of him.

Everything Nader has promised has happened. My property recently appraised above 25% over what I purchased and he put a renter in it 1 month after rehab during winter in Detroit.

There have been several situations where things could have gone poorly, as is the case in any market, but Nader has made sure it all worked out in my favor. Highly recommend.

[Odalis Gonzalez]

I just started working with Nader about a year ago but followed his journey for years. We bought a property for $40k, put about $12k into it and will be refinancing that one appraising somewhere around $95k+. Renter in it paying what they estimated and we cash flow $855. Granted we paid cash. Second property was a flip. Bought for $60k all in including the Reno Costs. They managed and communicated everything, sold that property for $80k- all happened in about 4 months. Of course things come up, they deal with them and communicate delays or issues. We are in NY and they have allowed us to be as hands off but still involved as possible. Nader is about building relationships and keeping a long standing relationship. He has been nothing but transparent and honest throughout, even being honest about what he feels would be a good fit for whatever our long term plans are. We plan on doing more flips and adding to our hood portfolio even more over the next year. 

[Juan Arciniega]

I bought my first rental property with upside. I was listening to a lot of BP podcasts and wanted to pull the trigger and start investing. Someone on Reddit actually put me onto upside and connected me with Nader. I ended up flying from LA to Detroit to meet with him and he was awesome. He drove me around showing me properties. Gave me the pros and cons of each house and the neighborhoods they were in. Told me which ones he strongly thought would increase in value and which ones came with steady reliable tenants. In the end I bought a duplex that needed a complete rehab. Took about 8 months to get it going then about 2 to get tenants in there. It was a scary jump into real estate but Nader took care of everything and made it manageable. He walked me through so many things. Even before the duplex was ready, I ended up getting a second house with Upside that already had a tenant in place and that one has been steady income. The duplex has had its ups and downs but overall it's made me consistent passive income and both properties have gone up significantly in value, with the duplex going up as much as 40%. I even refinanced and pulled money out of the duplex to build an ADU in my personal backyard. I started down this road looking for a single house and am now running 5 doors, with 3 being in Detroit. And a lot of that is because my mindset changed with so many conversations I've had with Nader, many of those as friends not even real estate related.

What I agree most with what others have said on this thread is that overall Nader is great with people. He doesn't come off as a salesman trying to make money with every connection. He comes off more as a friend who happens to have a connection into real estate. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, I think you mentioned you were also a remote investor, I'm in California so I might be able to answer questions on that as well. 

[Kevin Zh]

I've bought 2 properties with Nader and will +1 what everyone has said about working with Nader. It's been great and if it's your first time the turnkey experience is amazing. The team is transparent and he takes the time to talk with you and answer all your questions.

[Sean Beckman]

I have several properties with Nader and his team. Nader is super transparent, very knowledgeable about the Detroit market, and is very quick to communicate with me. 

Super important for an out of state investor, I am very pleased with Upside in Detroit. 

[Maz Pardhan]

Full disclosure I worked for upside for several months and continue to be a strategic advisor. That aside I’m also an investor in Detroit and have purchased over 10 properties that have been rehabbed and managed through upside. The numbers are real and if you  call them up they can actually walk your through actual brrrs that show great results. Yes c areas are rough, but people live there, and pay rent as they should. The rents are are definitely better in these areas relative to purchase price, than in the “better neighborhoods “ it comes down to you as an investor and what you are trying to achieve. I’d suggest you interview them along with another turnkey company and see how they respond. Ask for current owners who have gone through the process and ask them as well.All in all Detroit is a great investment market. Good luck on whatever path you take. 

[Engelo Rumora]

Quote from @Michael Smythe:

@Sunny Karen let's do a deep dive on this property listed as sold on their website:
15095 SORRENTO ST, DETROIT, MI 48227

if you do some searching on Zillow, the property does NOT show as sold and the last listing is from 03/17/2020. If this property had an actual LEGAL sale since then, can't think of a reason it would not show on Zillow.

Zillow also shows that the property is in the Bethune Neighborhood. We've ranked this as a Class D Neighborhood! Would NOT recommend anyone OOS buy in a Class D Neighborhood. 

Using Google Streetview (image capture 07/2022) to virtually drive the block, shows 5 vacant properties, one of which is significantly fire damaged. Actually, not that bad for a Class D Neighborhood, but there are so many BETTER streets in Detroit. Also, maybe they've been bought & renovated in the last 21 months.

The real challenge is the advertised $105k value.

Zillow shows a Zestimate of $59,600, RentZestimate $1,314
Redfin Estimate is $67,444, rent est $1,089
Realtor (dot com) estimates:
---Collateral Analytics $60,212
---Quantarium $49,728
---CoreLogic $67,264

Please show us where you can find ANYTHING that supports their $105k price!
FYI: none of the sites listed above know the condition of the property. So, they all assume average condition per the neighborhood sales prices only.

So, there's no way you'll be able to BRRR this property! Also, how much money do you think you'll lose if you pay their price of $98k?

One last challenge is their estimate of property taxes - they are all VERY low:(

Michigan has some interesting property taxes because there's a Taxable Value and a State Equalized Value, as well as Homestead and nonHomestead millage rates. 

Property taxes will INCREASE after you buy a property and often double or triple from what they are now. So, it's important to know what they'll be or you may not cashflow at all!

It's NOT rocket science to figure this all out and the state even provides a website where you can estimate what your property taxes will be AFTER your purchase. 

Full disclosure, the City of Detroit Assessor's office is not the best, so you often don't see as large as an increase as you should - but, there will be an increase!

PM us if you'd like more info...

What about Detroit's little brother called "Toledo".

S#@%, you can get A class for low $100,000 - $120,000

Solid B class for $80,000 - $100,000

C class for $60,000

D class for $0 (Yep, the seller will give it away almost lol)

And E class for -$15,000 due to back taxes and vandalism hehe

[Andrew West]

TLDR: I just refi'ed my first BRRR with Upside (duplex) and it went exactly to plan. Pulled 100% of my investment out, and it's currently fully occupied. That's a win in my book.

A bit of backstory: @Travis Biziorek and I met here on BP and developed a friendship over the past few years. I've done a few deals on my own in and around Detroit, but I've had to dial my investing activity WAY back due  to my W2 and other personal obligations, so I'm now leaning heavily on the skills & knowledge that the Upside team brings to keep building my portfolio.

This has been a fun thread to read and I love seeing the positive rapport that they've built amongst their investors. It speaks for itself.

@Sunny Karen, I'm not sure what your investing history is, but my only caution would be to DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. In my opinion, good partnerships always have a "trust but verify" component, and this is no different with Travis & Nader. They'd be the first to tell you that they don't want you getting into a deal that you don't understand or aren't comfortable with. Even though they do a lot of the heavy lifting on sourcing and analyzing deals, I would never pull the trigger if I hadn't run the numbers myself. Beyond that, a healthy familiarity with the nuts-and-bolts of all things REI (market research, strategies, deal analysis, property management, etc.) goes a long way in communicating with the team and articulating exactly what you're looking for. If you've got these things dialed in, then I'd say give them a call and start the conversation. They haven't steered me wrong yet!

And whatever you do, don't trust anyone who uses Zillow to analyze deals in Detroit (sorry @Michael Smythe, but that's just bush league)

[James Wise]

Quote from @Andrew West:

TLDR: I just refi'ed my first BRRR with Upside (duplex) and it went exactly to plan. Pulled 100% of my investment out, and it's currently fully occupied. That's a win in my book.

A bit of backstory: @Travis Biziorek and I met here on BP and developed a friendship over the past few years. I've done a few deals on my own in and around Detroit, but I've had to dial my investing activity WAY back due  to my W2 and other personal obligations, so I'm now leaning heavily on the skills & knowledge that the Upside team brings to keep building my portfolio.

This has been a fun thread to read and I love seeing the positive rapport that they've built amongst their investors. It speaks for itself.

@Sunny Karen, I'm not sure what your investing history is, but my only caution would be to DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. In my opinion, good partnerships always have a "trust but verify" component, and this is no different with Travis & Nader. They'd be the first to tell you that they don't want you getting into a deal that you don't understand or aren't comfortable with. Even though they do a lot of the heavy lifting on sourcing and analyzing deals, I would never pull the trigger if I hadn't run the numbers myself. Beyond that, a healthy familiarity with the nuts-and-bolts of all things REI (market research, strategies, deal analysis, property management, etc.) goes a long way in communicating with the team and articulating exactly what you're looking for. If you've got these things dialed in, then I'd say give them a call and start the conversation. They haven't steered me wrong yet!

And whatever you do, don't trust anyone who uses Zillow to analyze deals in Detroit (sorry @Michael Smythe, but that's just bush league)

 Calm down bro. @Michael Smythe has been in the game while. Read his posts, he knows his stuff. Zillow has it's problems, but it's got a lot of data that can be used as a user friendly starting point.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Michael Smythe:

@Sunny Karen let's do a deep dive on this property listed as sold on their website:
15095 SORRENTO ST, DETROIT, MI 48227

if you do some searching on Zillow, the property does NOT show as sold and the last listing is from 03/17/2020. If this property had an actual LEGAL sale since then, can't think of a reason it would not show on Zillow.

Zillow also shows that the property is in the Bethune Neighborhood. We've ranked this as a Class D Neighborhood! Would NOT recommend anyone OOS buy in a Class D Neighborhood. 

Using Google Streetview (image capture 07/2022) to virtually drive the block, shows 5 vacant properties, one of which is significantly fire damaged. Actually, not that bad for a Class D Neighborhood, but there are so many BETTER streets in Detroit. Also, maybe they've been bought & renovated in the last 21 months.

The real challenge is the advertised $105k value.

Zillow shows a Zestimate of $59,600, RentZestimate $1,314
Redfin Estimate is $67,444, rent est $1,089
Realtor (dot com) estimates:
---Collateral Analytics $60,212
---Quantarium $49,728
---CoreLogic $67,264

Please show us where you can find ANYTHING that supports their $105k price!
FYI: none of the sites listed above know the condition of the property. So, they all assume average condition per the neighborhood sales prices only.

So, there's no way you'll be able to BRRR this property! Also, how much money do you think you'll lose if you pay their price of $98k?

One last challenge is their estimate of property taxes - they are all VERY low:(

Michigan has some interesting property taxes because there's a Taxable Value and a State Equalized Value, as well as Homestead and nonHomestead millage rates. 

Property taxes will INCREASE after you buy a property and often double or triple from what they are now. So, it's important to know what they'll be or you may not cashflow at all!

It's NOT rocket science to figure this all out and the state even provides a website where you can estimate what your property taxes will be AFTER your purchase. 

Full disclosure, the City of Detroit Assessor's office is not the best, so you often don't see as large as an increase as you should - but, there will be an increase!

PM us if you'd like more info...

What about Detroit's little brother called "Toledo".

S#@%, you can get A class for low $100,000 - $120,000

Solid B class for $80,000 - $100,000

C class for $60,000

D class for $0 (Yep, the seller will give it away almost lol)

And E class for -$15,000 due to back taxes and vandalism hehe

 Shout out to lil Detroit. Nothing wrong with a lil D.

[Michael Smythe]

@Andrew West we didn't just reference Zillow, as we're well aware of its limitations for values.

That's why we also referenced: Redfin, Collateral Analytics, Quantarium & CoreLogic. 

Curious as to WHY everyone missed our reference to FOUR sources besides Zillow?

[Arsen Atanasovski]

Why does Ohio always have to butt in? I know there is a few areas in Ohio that are top cash flow cities on the national list but let’s talk about football. That’s right there is only one, GO BLUE! 

[Emily Holbrook]

I can vouch for Nader and @Travis Biziorek -- and the whole Upside team for that matter. 

I highly recommend Travis' newsletter about all things Detroit (and beyond) https://www.buyingdetroitrealestate.com/. He's a very smart guy and has more than 10 rental properties in Detroit. He's a true believer in the city.

I'm on my 2nd BRRRR with Travis, Nader, and Upside. The first appraised AND rented for more than projected. After a cash-out refi, I had my money back. My 2nd property is currently being renovated and am looking at the same -- or better -- once rented and refinanced.

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Andrew West:

TLDR: I just refi'ed my first BRRR with Upside (duplex) and it went exactly to plan. Pulled 100% of my investment out, and it's currently fully occupied. That's a win in my book.

A bit of backstory: @Travis Biziorek and I met here on BP and developed a friendship over the past few years. I've done a few deals on my own in and around Detroit, but I've had to dial my investing activity WAY back due  to my W2 and other personal obligations, so I'm now leaning heavily on the skills & knowledge that the Upside team brings to keep building my portfolio.

This has been a fun thread to read and I love seeing the positive rapport that they've built amongst their investors. It speaks for itself.

@Sunny Karen, I'm not sure what your investing history is, but my only caution would be to DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. In my opinion, good partnerships always have a "trust but verify" component, and this is no different with Travis & Nader. They'd be the first to tell you that they don't want you getting into a deal that you don't understand or aren't comfortable with. Even though they do a lot of the heavy lifting on sourcing and analyzing deals, I would never pull the trigger if I hadn't run the numbers myself. Beyond that, a healthy familiarity with the nuts-and-bolts of all things REI (market research, strategies, deal analysis, property management, etc.) goes a long way in communicating with the team and articulating exactly what you're looking for. If you've got these things dialed in, then I'd say give them a call and start the conversation. They haven't steered me wrong yet!

And whatever you do, don't trust anyone who uses Zillow to analyze deals in Detroit (sorry @Michael Smythe, but that's just bush league)

Thanks, Andrew! I'm looking forward to meeting up in person for the first time in late June. See you in the D, man.

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Emily Holbrook:

I can vouch for Nader and @Travis Biziorek -- and the whole Upside team for that matter. 

I highly recommend Travis' newsletter about all things Detroit (and beyond) https://www.buyingdetroitrealestate.com/. He's a very smart guy and has more than 10 rental properties in Detroit. He's a true believer in the city.

I'm on my 2nd BRRRR with Travis, Nader, and Upside. The first appraised AND rented for more than projected. After a cash-out refi, I had my money back. My 2nd property is currently being renovated and am looking at the same -- or better -- once rented and refinanced.

Emily, you're awesome, thanks! I've really enjoyed working with you and look forward to more deals in the future.

[Engelo Rumora]

Quote from @Arsen Atanasovski:

Why does Ohio always have to butt in? I know there is a few areas in Ohio that are top cash flow cities on the national list but let’s talk about football. That’s right there is only one, GO BLUE! 

I'm on my own mate.

Columbus Cartel didn't accept my Gangster application hehe

[Remington Lyman]

Quote from @Arsen Atanasovski:

Why does Ohio always have to butt in? I know there is a few areas in Ohio that are top cash flow cities on the national list but let’s talk about football. That’s right there is only one, GO BLUE! 

 Go Bucks!