having attorney close on seller finance deal

having attorney close on seller finance deal

Real Estate Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 11 votes

I posted this in an old thread and didnt get much response. Ill try it here...

I've been reading all I can about the SAFE act. I even called the Florida Division of Consumer finance and am still not exactly clear on compliance (I will be making some attorney calls next), but...

From what I can decipher, having an attorney/MLO draw up the paperwork and close on the loan seems to be the simple answer. Why does this seem to be such a problem? I know there is a fee, but in the scheme of things there is still quite a profit to be made right? Is the problem that they actually negotiate the terms? Are we as seller financers still allowed to discuss numbers at all? Is the problem that the attorney/MLO will discourage the numbers (down payments, interest rates, etc) and try to negotiate the buyers a better deal? I can't seem to find a large enough downside to finding an attorney to close (here in Florida) to be discouraged by this.

The continuation of this question is, (assuming an attorney/MLB handles the paperwork) are we still able to advertise and market as providing seller financing with low down, or is this crossing the line also??

0Reply
53 views

Most Popular Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
13y

Hi Lori,

Many attorneys do not want the liability of drafting these kinds of documents and doing the closing etc.

What you need to find is an attorney who is an investor themselves and who has a track record of doing wraps, seller financed notes, etc.

They will have the specific knowledge to help you. A general real estate attorney I have found just does not play in this space and can make multiple mistakes. Maybe go to your local REIA investor association and seek out recommendations for legal counsel there.

See this reply in the discussion

9 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Hi Lori,

    Many attorneys do not want the liability of drafting these kinds of documents and doing the closing etc.

    What you need to find is an attorney who is an investor themselves and who has a track record of doing wraps, seller financed notes, etc.

    They will have the specific knowledge to help you. A general real estate attorney I have found just does not play in this space and can make multiple mistakes. Maybe go to your local REIA investor association and seek out recommendations for legal counsel there.

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Lori Hunter,

    Your post is very important and points out the numerous considerations.

    Hiring an attorney can be very cheap insurance.

    I have been actively buying, selling, and providing seller financing since the 1960s. Even so, I still highly encourage seeking legal advice as well as self-education. Without self-education, it is difficult to ask the best questions and make sure the attorney is addressing my issues. I am a party to the agreement, so I want to have a full understanding of every word and resulting consequences.

    While an attorney can be asked to negotiate the terms, it is not a requirement. Some people feel lawyers are “deal killers”. The final decision remains the person hiring the attorney. The attorney just makes sure the agreement is within the laws and protects the interests of his employer.

    I never allow an attorney to negotiate on my behalf - personal decision.

  • Real Estate Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Joel Owens Can you recommend me one of those attorneys! ;)

    Well, lol, I have decided that there really is no answer to any of theses questions. Im not sure that those that made the laws even know the answers!

    You cant discuss the numbers/terms of your own sale!
    You can't loan your own money without an attorney/MLO.
    An attorney/MLO doens't want any part of it! Go figure!
    The laws are confusing.
    The interpretations are beyond conflicting.
    Heck, the real estate attorney I just spoke with sounded unfamiliar with the Act all together!

    After talking for a while, she attached a copy of the Act in an email and said it is her opinion that someone providing seller financing would not be considered a "loan originator".
    I have been researching until my eyes are crossed, and this is the part where I start to really pull my hair out... because, how are you supposed to follow laws that no one even understands!?! Aaand, those that are supposed to be responsible for upholding this Act either have no clue, or don't want to help.

    I guess for the little people like my husband and I who only have a couple houses under our belt, no collection of attorneys working for us, and no banks of cash to work with, this feels immobilizing. We have big ideas and lots drive and figured working with used mobile homes was a great entry point for us. A place to help people and learn at the same time while making a little money. But, I've become terrified of the threat big fines and possible jail time if we dont comply. And frankly we aren't sure how to comply:(

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    An attorney that is also an investor doing owner financed deals should be well versed in this type of thing and up to date on all the rules and regs.

    I do not know one locally in your area. Wish I could help more.

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Lori Hunter,

    Contact the people around Jimmy Napier who is a very long-time, successful Florida real estate investor. He and his family live and office in Chipley, FL.

    Jimmy has a long history of investing in mobile homes and is the person who got my father and I interested in investing in mobile homes.

    You are correct, this is an excellent investing segment of the real estate business.

    His website has links for other investors. Some of these investors also invest in mobile homes.

    I am not suggesting any of these people will provide legal advice, in fact, I doubt they will. Liability issues. However, they will know attorneys who can legally provide legal advice.

    I have never found it difficult to find a real estate attorney. Ask your bank for the name of the attorney or lawfirm they use.

    More than anything else, know the tenant laws of Florida if you plan to do any leasing.

  • Real Estate Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Thanks Joel Owens:) I guess I just needed to vent a little. Finding an attorney who is also an investor is next on my list!

  • Real Estate Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Your information so much appreciated Tom Goans. I will most definitely contact him. I think we just needed a suggestion like this to get our foot in the door.
    If not, Im just going to keep kicking at it until it opens! lol.

  • Note Investor · Carson City, NV · Member since 2009 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Two attorneys in FL who I have used to buy owner-financed notes (so they understand the seller financing conversation):

    Eric A. Cruz
    Attorney
    Bivins & Hemenway, P.A.

    J. Russell Collins (Rusty)
    Attorney at Law
    Rusty Law, LLC

    A booklet put out by the CFPB (see page 20):
    http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201306_cfpb_compliance-guide_loan-originator-compensation-rule.pdf

    If I were you, I wouldn't stress out about it too much, just have someone help you dot the i's and cross the t's, and basically do what all the regulations are trying to accomplish: make sure you're not setting the buyer up for failure. Fully amortize the note, or if you do put in a balloon, push it out 7 or 10 years, and be prepared to possibly have to modify it to avoid having to foreclose, and putting everyone in an uncomfortable position.

    Your experience is an example to me of how the over-regulation is creating fear and uncertainty, hampering a lot of liquidity and creative solutions in the marketplace that are greatly needed and profoundly important in people creating solutions together when 'the system' has run amok.

    Best wishes,

  • Real Estate Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Thanks a bunch for chiming in Dawn Rickabaugh. I will certainly contact those two recommendations. And thanks for the words of wisdom too. Im feeling better about it and less stressed. I feel like I know what my next step is now and that helps.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.