Is 12% a realistic long term Cash on Cash Return?

[Aayush S.]

Hi all,
I've recently been looking into my retirement and I noticed that @Brandon Turner seems to say in his podcasts that he looks for a 12% COC return in his buy and hold rentals. Is 12% easily attainable through rentals without taking cash out of the deal and relying solely on rehab and rent? If so, what states/cities/markets would this be the most attainable in? (I don't want to do BRRR, because I want my ROE to still be roughly 12%, such as if I have 100k equity in the deal after I take out all my invested money through a cash out refinance, I would still get 12k annual cash flow, but you simply can't get that in a BRRR.) Please ask if you have any questions regarding my situation.

[Nathan McBride]

Just my $.02, I think 12% CoC ROI is agressive in this market, at least in the areas that allow for decent potential future appreciation and that typically have a lower-maintenance tenant base.

Personally, I am happy with an 8% CoC ROI because this is roughly equivalent to what I might expect from the stock market, leaving amortization and appreciation as "gravy."

I should caveat that the 8% deals I am referencing were purchased with 20-year notes, so my equity build is much higher than a 30-yr note, leading to a higher overall ROI.