LLC's, Business structure for multiple properties? Your Input?

[Kurt Delia]

Hello everyone,  long time reader and podcast listener, first time poster...  

Here is my current situation... This year, I finally made the leap and purchased a duplex and a SFH, all rented, all cash flowing beautifully, but have a question in regards to business structure and setup. I have formed 2 LLCs, each to hold the individual properties. Bank accounts for each and handling everything separately

So, I met with a CPA last week, and the advice she gave me was to create a Holdings LLC and a Property Management LLC in addition to the current 2 property LLC's. The Holding company will be the "Member/Owner" of the 3 LLCs (2 property holding LLCs, and the new Property Management Company LLC).

The purpose for this then would be that I would really only need to manage "books" on the property Management LLC, and because the Holding company was the owner of all 3 of these LLCs, I could use the property Management LLC to pay all of the bills, collect the rent, maintenance etc.

My question, if tenant in property of LLC1 sues LLC1, do I open up exposure to the other property? I get that the tenant could also sue the property management company, but being there are no assets other than a few bank accounts and cash, would that be my only exposure? Or, if they sue both the LLC the property is held in, and the parent LLC, would it open up exposure to other LLC's owned by the parent LLC (i.e. other property holding LLC that I have?).

This sounds very confusing..  and maybe i am over thinking this a bit..  Just trying to figure out how to best protect my assets as I've gotten conflicting information from reading only about the exposure.  

I did speak to a real estate attorney, and his recommendation was just have the property LLCs and operate out of them property wise/independently.   I do not like this as obviously if a business account is only accumulating rent from 1 property, it wouldn't accrue the cash in each as quickly as it would if all of the rents were funneled into one account.. and it makes paying the bills a bit of a pain on each of the properties as I am having things done to the properties, lawn care, etc.. constantly has me making owner investment deposits into each to cover initial expenses associated with the properties.. etc. 

Or, should i do the same exact concept except eliminate the holding company, and simply have 3 independent LLC's, all with me as the member, and the property management company handle all of the transactions and pay the property holding LLCs a fee each month?

Uhhg..  Sorry.. Very wordy post, but hoping to hear your thoughts on this and any suggestions you have. 

Thank to all of you that participate on here!!! It is me reading this site for the last few years that finally pushed me into taking the leap this past March with the duplex, and then in June with the SFH.. I am Looking to add another 2 properties to my portfolio before the end of the year, but definitely want to figure this out before I get in any deeper.

Thanks again, and I look forward to your response!

Kurt

[Taylor L.]

Tagging @Scott Smith because I expect he'll have a great answer on this

[Kerry Baird]

Our setup is just as you CPA suggests. Have a master entity, a corporation, that manages a series LLC and one other holding LLC.

[Mike Robert]

I’ll

[Mike Robert]

Ifl

[Scott Smith]

@Kurt Delia 

Hey Kurt – congrats on leaping in. To keep everything simple my recommendation is typically to have one LLC that you use for operations and one Series LLC that you use for asset holding. Anything more than that is over-doing it in my opinion.

I don't see why you would create a holding llc and property management llc in addition to the 2 current LLC's because that is a ton to keep up with. Your fee to your CPA will be double as well as your on-going maintenance to keep those LLC's in compliance.

With the simplistic process of having one LLC for operations and one Series LLC for asset holding; you will save yourself a ton of time, money, and headache which would occur if you move forward with juggling 4 LLC's – yuck! I would presume to think that the reason they suggested that is because it is important to keep your properties held separately however that is what the Series LLC does while streamlining banking and taxes. Creating each child series beneath the "parent" in the Series LLC structure provides the separation of assets so if something were to happen to one property it cannot affect the other.

Here is an article that I wrote for BP that will provide some more insight to this structure: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/the-traditional-llc-vs-the-series-llc-which-is-better-for-real-estate-investors/

Also please feel free to Dm me or leave a reply if you have more questions.

Podcast #109 here on BP will also give a nice high level overview.

[John Gallagher]

Quote from @Scott Smith:

@Kurt Delia 

Hey Kurt – congrats on leaping in. To keep everything simple my recommendation is typically to have one LLC that you use for operations and one Series LLC that you use for asset holding. Anything more than that is over-doing it in my opinion.

I don't see why you would create a holding llc and property management llc in addition to the 2 current LLC's because that is a ton to keep up with. Your fee to your CPA will be double as well as your on-going maintenance to keep those LLC's in compliance.

With the simplistic process of having one LLC for operations and one Series LLC for asset holding; you will save yourself a ton of time, money, and headache which would occur if you move forward with juggling 4 LLC's – yuck! I would presume to think that the reason they suggested that is because it is important to keep your properties held separately however that is what the Series LLC does while streamlining banking and taxes. Creating each child series beneath the "parent" in the Series LLC structure provides the separation of assets so if something were to happen to one property it cannot affect the other.

Here is an article that I wrote for BP that will provide some more insight to this structure: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/the-traditional-llc-vs-the-series-llc-which-is-better-for-real-estate-investors/

Also please feel free to Dm me or leave a reply if you have more questions.

Podcast #109 here on BP will also give a nice high level overview.

Hi Scott,
How would you recommend structuring this in Pennsylvania?

Thanks so much in Advance!
John

[Mike Hoover]

Hey Kurt,

Long time since you posted this well worded and structured question.  Curious to where you landed and if you have any advice after running a few tax cycles.  

Hoov