Limit on number of mortgages

Limit on number of mortgages

Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 12 votes

Hi everyone

I've been doing some investments over the past couple of years, but I'm still definitely learning about RE and landlording.

In addition to my current residence, I've got 3 properties, which are all leveraged, so that's a total of 4 mortgages. But when preparing for the next purchase, my lender told me that they would not give me another mortgage because 4 is the limit.

The amount of actual leverage in investment properties is actually small (about 300k), which I told the bank, but they don't care. "4 is the limit", they said.

Is this just my lender or is it a hard rule across the board?

The lending officer told me about VA Vendi properties, but the selection seemed really poor, when I looked at them, and there were only a handful in California and they were in really odd places.

They also told me that if I moved into another primary residence, and started renting out my current house, then I'd be able to qualify for another mortgage. But, what if I don't want to move?

Is there a way to get around this? Maybe I have to start a business and put the loans under that?

Thanks everyone!

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Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
14y
Originally posted by Chris Martin:
The irony is that it may be "easier" to talk to a commercial lender, depending on your history and financial situation. If it's 4 or 10, soon you'll need to "step up" and cut the cord of the cheap government money.

Sorry, but that's just completely silly. There's nothing "manly" about using commercial lenders... it's not "stepping up" to go to them before warranted and necessary... what it is in fact is stupid. It's a waste of profit.

I won't speak for everyone, but I fully intend to grab as much of that cheap Government money as I legally can. 10 loans for myself, 10 for my wife... and then hope the rules change so I can have more. I'm looking to line my pockets, not those of a banker, commercial or otherwise.

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  • SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    You need to try other lenders and do the "run-around". The FNMA limit is 10 mortgages, but several lenders still maintain a limit of 4. There is no such limit with VA Vendee homes, but like you said, the pickings are slim. My understanding is the VA only offers up their "dogs" for Vendee financing and not all their REO's. Still, we purchased a nice little Vendee home early this year and she's been a great little rental so far. Unfortunately, BofA is the company that administers the VA Vendee program, so prepare to hit your head against a brick wall on a regular basis.

  • Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 12 votes
    15y

    Hi Mitch, thanks for your insight.

    I'm happy to hear that the limit of 4 is not for all lenders. I've seem many people with well over 4 properties, so I had a suspicion that the 4 wasn't the hard limit, but I wasn't sure.

    The other alternative is to pay off one of the smaller ones, but then I don't get the benefits of the leverage.

    Glad to hear that you have a good Vendee home working for you, I'll keep an eye out for things that come up in that program.

  • Investor · Statewide, MO · Member since 2011 · 820 posts · 427 votes
    15y

    The problem with the situation is this: fannie and freddie will allow more than 4, but I know (and have not been able to find anyone) of no large, national lenders that will go beyond 4 financed properties. If you do, share the secret with the world. Your best bet is to find a local bank that will work with you. You may have to make a lot of calls to find one, but they are out there.

  • Brian LevredgePro Member
    Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes
    15y

    You will also more than likely run into having to show two years tax returns per property when you deal with the bigs as well. An alternative could be to find a portfolio lender that will do a blanket on your three rentals. It's not cheap, there are limitations, and it can be a pain in the ***, but it's an alternative nonetheless. That would leave you with two loans again.

  • Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 12 votes
    15y

    Thanks to everyone for their great replies!

    At this point I'll have more than 2 years of tax returns, so I'll keep those around and see what I can negotiate with maybe some smaller lenders.

  • Rick BassettBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Greater New Haven, CT · Member since 2010 · 377 posts · 434 votes
    14y

    Can anyone recommend a lender that will go past 4?

    Bassett Property Management5109 Reviews
  • Investor · Union, NJ · Member since 2011 · 838 posts · 295 votes
    14y

    Hi Jason,

    You just need to shop around. Ask up front. The banks that do it usually have a program and guidelines set. I know for sure some of the guidelines are tigher. I believe you will need 25% down I also read Fannie is now asking for 30%. Also you will need 6 months cash reserves for all your existing properties as well as subject property. There are a few other guidelines that I canot remember. Probably 2 years tax returns and your DTI ratios must be decent.

    I am in your situation as well right now. I am waiting on a minor issue to be resolved before I can go under contract for my 6th property. I have 4 investment and one primary - I believe that is the limit before you get to the stricter Fannie Mae 5-10 guidelines.

    hope this helps,
    Chris

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    The irony is that it may be "easier" to talk to a commercial lender, depending on your history and financial situation. If it's 4 or 10, soon you'll need to "step up" and cut the cord of the cheap government money.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Seattle, WA · Member since 2008 · 134 posts · 10 votes
    14y

    Couple of years ago (2008-09) this was a HUGE issue for my investment group. My father and I had 4 properties (1 primary, 3 investment), immaculate credit, low DTI, and sufficient DP and despite this..we were unable to secure funding through a traditional lender.

    Imagine having your sights set on accumalating 10 properties only be told that you can no longer do more than 4. Frustrating.

    Obviously since then, some lenders have relaxed their policy/guidelines with respect to 4 property rule.

    Unfortunately, I wouldn't know who those lenders are -- as I've come up with more innovative techingues/strategies to fund additional properties.

  • SFR Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 604 posts · 243 votes
    14y

    if you have a property that has very little owned on it, you can transfer to an LLC, and get a commercial loan on that property, which is NOT a mortgaged property in your name since its now in the name of the LLC,,,this helps if you owe very little or have a smaller property, but want to buy a more expensive one with one of your conforming properties.

    6 months reserves for all rental properties (most banks say all mortgages but some will not make you have 6 on your primary), they will use 75% of lease amount if you don't have 2 years history on a particular property.,,,may pay 1/8-1/4 point more than on properties 1-4,,

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Chris Martin:
    The irony is that it may be "easier" to talk to a commercial lender, depending on your history and financial situation. If it's 4 or 10, soon you'll need to "step up" and cut the cord of the cheap government money.

    Sorry, but that's just completely silly. There's nothing "manly" about using commercial lenders... it's not "stepping up" to go to them before warranted and necessary... what it is in fact is stupid. It's a waste of profit.

    I won't speak for everyone, but I fully intend to grab as much of that cheap Government money as I legally can. 10 loans for myself, 10 for my wife... and then hope the rules change so I can have more. I'm looking to line my pockets, not those of a banker, commercial or otherwise.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    hen Nathan, don't do it. It's clearly not right for you. It may not be right for anyone else either. But it works (and worked) for some of us.

    The commercial loans in the LLC didn't show up on my credit report. Hmmmm. And they don't count towards 4/10 FNMA loans since they aren't.

    My commercial closings take 60 seconds. My commercial "loans" take 60 seconds.

    Explain to me the benefit of not planning ahead, unless you don't want to continue to leverage after the government giveaway.

    No sense in using (or planning to use) private money, either, right Nathan? You have those FNMA bullets.

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
    14y

    Planning ahead is fine... jumping ahead unnecessarily isn't wise. You seemed to be advocating the 2nd, not the 1st in your post.

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes
    14y

    Last I checked (few months ago), Citibank was still lending 5-10, though only for SFRs and duplexes (no tri's or quad's).

    Yes, the LTV drops to 70%, 6 mths PITI in cash reserves on all properties, NO 30-day lates on any of your mortgage in last 12 mths allowed, and 2 years of documented landlording experience in order to count rental income.

    In my area, US Bank will go to six loans.

    I have found that there seem to be local banks in most markets that have a wholesale lender available (the average small bank might have 4-6 different wholesale lenders that they resell their loans to, and some of these wholesalers are better at certain types of loans than othes) that will in fact go 5-10 on conventional, but you have to make alot of calls to find them.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alhambra CA · Member since 2009 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    Hi,

    I am investing in 8th property right now but I can still get the loan because I have relationship with the lender and investors. You need to have relationship with the lender. I recommend that you should network with investors and lenders by attending network event etc. Then, you will find the source that you can get the mortgage companies that willing to loan you money beyond the 4th loan.

    Good luck!

  • Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 12 votes
    14y

    Hi Al

    Thanks for your replies. As suggested, I've found a local lender that I like and they have no problem with going past the 4 limit. I'm now working on my fifth property. Full steam ahead!

  • Ballwin, MO · Member since 2011 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Jason,

    Though rule allows up to 10 properties per person, most of the banks don't allow more than 4 per person. If you are married, you could buy 4 more properties under your wife's name. Make sure to avoid to have both on the loan. You could have other person on title but not on the HUD. With this process, you could easily hold up to 8 properties as long as the income supports it. I know three banks that will allow more than 4 properties.

    Try

    1) Oakstar bank, springfield, Mo

    2) Arvest bank (owned by waltons -walmart) Arkansas

    3) Pulaski Bank in St.louis

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