Help em form my offer- SFR with cell tower income...

Help em form my offer- SFR with cell tower income...

Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes

For those of who haven't read my other post, it is here-
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/60255-how-does-it-work-when-the-seller-financines-a-portion-

To summarize what I talked about in that other post, my childhood nextdoor neighbor threw up a FSBO sign last weekend. He is fed up with a bunch of various life circumstances, and says that he just wants to leave. He runs a granite business out of a shop in his back yard. Business has been slow and he figures he'll try something else.

So, as far as I know here are the specs

Location- North Seattle, semi-desirable neighborhood.
Estimated Rent- $1300 per mo conservative.
*T-Mobile Income- $600
Amount owed on property- Approx. $25k
Taxable Value- $236k
Estimated Value (from comps) $174,392
Repairs Needed- Under $30k
Value minus repairs- 144392

*There is a t mobile tower located on the street. The tower control box is located in the owners shop, which he is paid $600 per month to house. He told me that whoever owns the house gets the money, and that in two more years it goes up to $750. (Edit- I do plan on doing a detailed investigation in the cell tower contract if I can get a contract signed.)

So, I have been looking at ways to set up this deal. I have never written a deal, not was I planning to start practicing until this summer, but this deal seems like it could work out for me. And being next door to my parents would have its advantages. My dad recently started restoring old cars, and if I didn't rent out the shop, he could use it. There are other perks as well.

As you can see from the repair estimates, the house needs some work. I really just threw 30k out there, but I used to do rental restorations with my dad, and other construction, and I highly doubt it'd be more than that. (Due diligence to come though.) The guy was a granite worker and so he installed marble and granite into most of the house. A few things were not done that tastefully either since he was just using scraps. Though I'd keep a few things like the kitchen counters and the heated slate tiles in the hallway to the bathroom. But he has some granite flooring that would get carpeted over.

Anyway, as for creating a deal, I just finished listening to the Weekend Millionaire program. One thing that I liked about that program, as opposed to others I have listened to, is that they emphasized the possibilities of setting up wholesale terms, vs just wholesale prices. And I think I want to attempt some of those tactics in this deal.

I think that my old neighbor would be willing to negotiate with me and I think that he'd be willing to carry a note in order to create some monthly income. I used excel to help me create some formulas pop out different offers.

Tell me what you think-

First I estimated what I could put toward a monthly payment, whether bank or owner financed-

1300 (rent)
-50% (expenses)
-$200 (desired cashflow)
+$600 (cell tower income)
===================
$1050

This process seemed simple, but I think it should work for my preliminary number crunching.

I then used $1050 to estimate what I could offer on the house. I have a potential line of credit where I could get 50k (maybe more) at 5.5% interest (maybe lower). So I made a table of offers. I established what I could offer for the house if I made a down payment of either 25k, 35k, or 50k (being paid off at 5.5%), had a term of 30, 20, or 15 years, and was paying him wither 0% or 2% interest. The numbers ranged from $315,240, down to $109,986. And regardless of what I paid, the terms changed, but my monthly payment would stay at 1050, when divided by paying him and paying back my loan for the down payment.

Out of all the deals, I think that the one that would be the best compromise would be the 20yr note, @0%. It'd be $210k for the house if he wanted $25k down, OR 193K for the house, if he wanted $35k down. The main point that I'd try to push is that if he was willing at financing me at 0%, it would allow me to be able to pay him more down, and more total, while still keeping it in the profitability range that I am shooting for. Obviously this could get shot down, but maybe it'd work.

I guess my main questions would be, does the above thinking look like it would be a good deal if it went through. I may be shooting high, but I just want to make sure I haven't overlooked too many things (since I am sure that I have overlooked at least a few). I am also hoping to have him cover some/all of the closing cost. It's all on the negotiating table, so we'll see.

Again, let me know what you think, and please be easy on me, I am a self proclaimed novice, which is why I am bringing this before you guys.

Also, let me know what you guys think about my math for estimating what I could pay per month. It seems very simple, but effective. I wasn't looking at cap rates or anything like that. I just looked at what my goal was for cashflow, what met net income would be, and found a number.... :D

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Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y

Ethan,

Please post your "cash solution" here so that others may benefit, unless of course you're just advertising something that is.

See this reply in the discussion

17 Replies

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  • Note Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2009 · 849 posts · 544 votes
    15y

    Another option to consider is to sell that cell phone tower income stream.

    I would consider paying a lump sum upfront for that income stream...

  • Real Estate Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2011 · 74 posts · 17 votes
    15y

    You have a lot of factors involved here and it definitely sounds like something worth pursuing. Although your sumary was very good... I'm thinking you may want to invest in a commercial appraisal to take in all the different aspects of the property with the cell tower and all. I am also a little wary of tax appraisals. They really can't be trusted for much. I'd also want to take a look at the agreement he has with the cell company since it would become yours and you would have to notify them of the change in ownership. On that Seller Second--I would not propose 0% if you really want him to say yes. Go for 1 - 3% negotiating in fractions.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    As far as the tax value goes, I used that to help me compare what houses sold for vs their tax values. I figured by using the taxable value of the improvements on the property vs the amount the properties sold for, it helped me find a trend of what houses were selling for compared to their taxable value. And while that is ballpark, I actually came up with a number about 6k less that what I would have "assumed" it was worth,just by looking at recent sales.

    I do plan on reviewing the cell tower contract thoroughly. It is obviously a deal-breaker in this situation.

    Lastly, I know that 0% seems low, but I figured I'd put it on my offer as part of an ABC offer. Basically, Option A- I can only offer you X if I get bank financing (lowest offer). Option C- I can offer you X if you carry all of the financing (Highest offer). And option B- I could offer you any of these three offers, ranging in between A nd B, and having different rates, terms, etc... So I plan on offering him a contract with interest rates matching current CD rates, but I want to also offer him the option of 0% down, which in the end would actually bring him more money. In fact, looking at my numbers, regardless of if he wants to have interest on his money or not, I really will be paying the same monthly payment no matter what. So if you did the math,if I buy the house for 315k, at 30yrs, at 0%, I'd end up paying him the same as if I paid, 234k, @2% for 30 years. Same monthly payment...

    I guess that is where the orchestrating of the offers becomes a bit tricky, one way makes it look like you are getting more fr your house, the other makes it look like you are earning more interest, but the payments and term remains the same.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    I suggest you make one offer at a time and not confuse the seller by presenting various options. It's great that you have considered and understand your options, but selling is an emotional experience to some degree no matter who you are. Sometimes complicating the decission just scares them off. Pick your best presentation and go with it, if it is refused come back with the next option. No need to tip your hand off the bat.

    Presenting anything with 0 interest not only does not make financial sence, it presents tax problems as any income stream will have an imputed tax rate to taxes. And, I would never offer a deal with seller financing at a lesser rate than CDs. That is the advantage of seller financing, that the equity in the deal earnes more than if it were received in cash at closing and that the taxable gain is taxed as received and as interest income. Over any term, it is a better deal for the seller (and you as a tax expense) to go with a higher interest rate and simply discount the sale price to compensate for it.

    As you have figured out, the numbers can be manipulated with interest over the term.

    The suggestion to sell the income stream from T-Mobile could provide up front cash, but that income is good as gold and watch your discount or rate allowed, and I would not sell more than five years of payments or a longer term than your seller financed term. You may need that to refinance.

    Just as I was reading your post, I was just thinking $125K ish would be a good deal. Don't forget that the cell tower is external obsolesence, having a devalued effect on the property as a single family dwelling and will likely never be put into the secondary market forfinancing. Consider the difference between commercial financing terms and rates over conventional residential terms and rate for so long as that ugly tower is there.

    And, look at what the income is today, don't value today what might be in the future, at least for pricing as of today.

    Have you found out yet what the nedds of the seller are?

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    15y

    You have to take care with cell towers. A lot of them choose to change locations when it is time to upgrade equiptment. When I look at apartment buildings I look at the cellincome as a bonus (not what you wanted to hear)

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Jeffery, good point, we should have asked about the "tower", that might be an issue where you are with cell antenanas in a built up area, but if you're talking about a 600+ foot tower, those are rarely moved, they are abandoned if anything. They can and are leased out for other uses, braodcast radio and television, public service communications, etc.

    In the 90s I worked with a guy (advised and financed) who went through the mid-west obtaing long term leases on properties lining up repeater towers and leasing them to Altell (now Verison) and did very well very quickly I might add.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y

    Maybe it's just me who is cautious of the radiation these towers emit? and yeah, i know, industry research shows no significant impact on surroundings.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    Well, my parents live under it too, and they're only slightly insane...

    As for the tower, I don't think I can actually use it as a means of arguing for a lower land value. This area is moderately forested and there are power lines on wooden telephone poles. (I am describing them because I sometime forget that people in other areas of the country don't have them...) The cell tower antenna is actually on the top of the telephone pole and there is some 6" conduit that runs down the side. So it is actually not that noticeable. You can tell it is there, but it doesn't really stand out.

    As for offering 0%, maybe I won't go that route, but I still might offer 1%. Altough it won't change the amount of number of payments I would make, the idea of the house selling for a higher number (at a lower rate) just sounds better. I am not trying to trick the seller, but the way I heard the tactic beign used is that by offering a higher price at 0%, the seller is going to get the higher price they may have been wanting, another advantage is that it does solidify the length of the loan because there would never be a reason for me to refinance. This guarantees the CF for the seller and it prevents the possibility of paying capital gains on a large sum.

    I also still like the idea of having 2-3 offers. Or maybe one written offer, with the explanation of what the other three could be. I just want to emphasize that I could go traditional financing and they could get the whole amount, but my offer will be significantly lower. OR, I could get them more money down, but then the monthly cash flow would be lower. I personally feel that it would let me feel like I knew my options better, as a seller. And since this guy isn't too certain of his plans yet, it might help him know what his options are.

    And as far I can tell right now, the seller might have just put the FSBO sign up out of frustration with his business and from some personal issues he has been having. Either way, I want to be the guy who puts an offer on the table, that way if he pulls the sign, but thinks about selling later, he'll know I"m interested.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    Well, I was going to post a google earth image of the cell tower, in street view mode, but I can't do it from the computer at my work. I'll try to get one later...

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Yes, please do post your solution!

    Well, on top of a telephone pole and that was called a "Tower"? That's a horse ofa different color. I'm sure I have had Ham Radio towers that were more of an eye sore than that.

    I would not give any more weight to that lease than what is under contract now. $14,400, as Jeff mentioned, it could be moved easily. I'd have to see a picture to give an opinion. I've been thinking it was a steel tower about 6 or 8 hundred feet or larger!

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    I don't think they'd move it, mainly because of the great location. It is on a hill, but right before the thicker forested area starts, and there are no other towers nearby. So I figure they would keep it there. Though again, I'd need to look at the duration of the contract.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    Just work from my network of spies (my father) that he took the FSBO signs down. This is actually encouraging to me. Either way, I am going to get the practice of writting up and making an offer, and if he does decide to sell, I won't have competition. This way he'll always know that I am there and waiting.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    The terrain will be a factor as well as features tha will interfer with reception and intermodulation. If other alternative areas are really limited, you may have a long term lease to bank on, but a phone pole? (LOL) Something else not mentioned is that you need to check the easement, they will need to be able to drive a bucket truck to the pole for any repair and get inside that shop building at anytime. Wouldthat bother another tenant?? Just a thought.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    They can get to the pole from the street (which is city owned[obviously the street is, but I meant the area around the pole}) and the equipment is in the large shop which I do not intend to rent with the house (unless someone was really interested and willing to pay), and the house is on the corner, so there is a nice path straight to the segregated area for their equipment, which is totally away from the house.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    The shop may already be leased, read the cell lease carefully. Giving access to another to cell phone equipment is not a good idea, IMO. The cell company and the landlord, that should be it. Otherwise, wall off the cell phone equipment with seperate access.

    A landlord has a duty of care to provide security. I thinkyou need to a local real estate type to guide you in this deal, better yet, seek legal advice. There is no way you can get every aspect or needed considertions for your deal in this forum since we are not there, we don't have all the information no matter how much you write. I strongly suggest you get local assistance.......good luck.

  • Homeowner · Grandview, WA · Member since 2010 · 155 posts · 21 votes
    15y

    The cell tower equipment is in a walled off section with its own entrance.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Escondido, CA · Member since 2011 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    15y

    Cell towers are a great tool to use to purchase property. You can get $70k for the cell tower lease and close concurrently. Now you've got a piece of real estate for 1/2 price. I've got a few articles that I think may interest you. [REMOVED] I've had two clients do this and another use his cell site to trade into another real estate bargain

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