Investor · Short Gap, WV · Member since 2016 · 160 posts · 38 votes
Hey BP,
I want out of my full time job at IBM. I'm sick of it. I know, I know. Working a job (even if you don't "like" it) is a part of "growing up". Working this job is one of the most unfulfilling things I've ever done in life. I want out. I could rant for a long time how I hate my job, but I won't.
I know that getting financing is easier when you have a job, I know it means you can grow your portfolio faster, I know it gives you a cushion. I'm just sick of my job and want to know what my opinions are.
I've looked into being an agent, but there's a lot of competition around me (from what I'm told). I've looked into being an appraiser, but that looks very difficult to get into. I don't really know what I can do. I wouldn't mind contracting work, if it wasn't seasonal. It looks like I may have to go to a local area to me (like Hagerstown, Morgantown, Martinsburg, Frostburg, or Fairmont) if I want to make this possible.
Do you all have any suggestions how I can get into real estate full time in my current position? I'm okay with living off of ketchup bread for a year or so.
real estate is NOT all wine and roses.. and it can suck as bad as a day job.... not sure what this FANTASY about how this industry is easy and you can get rich.. some do but thats the vast minority.. most go broke at it... stick to your day job .. save your money and buy rentals thats the best way for most... or save your money and do flip deals or invest with other successful builders those types of deals.
Just from your statement about competition pushing you away, I really feel this desk job is well cut out for you.
I would just stick it through at your job and save up enough to buy a couple multi-family's or expand your knowledge and connections to the point where you can syndicate one large commercial deal and make a living off managing the investment and your investors.
Don't know anyone who didn't go through times of agony and pain before acquiring success. I'd be happy that these times of pain involve sitting on a rolling chair in some nice AC. Start living off ketchup and bread now so you can save more money faster and quit your job faster.
Hopefully someone else can chime in a more appealing route for you. Best of luck and happy investing!
real estate is NOT all wine and roses.. and it can suck as bad as a day job.... not sure what this FANTASY about how this industry is easy and you can get rich.. some do but thats the vast minority.. most go broke at it... stick to your day job .. save your money and buy rentals thats the best way for most... or save your money and do flip deals or invest with other successful builders those types of deals.
It's nice to see a fellow West Virginian. I feel working a job that gives you no self worth is enough to quit on its own. I'm not saying quit your job tomorrow but, look into a position that really intrigues you in Real Estate. Read up on that position and try to reach out to someone currently working it (linkedin great choice to do so.) Ask around about mentors or open job positions. The areas you mentioned above I feel are great markets to get involved in. As for competition, no matter where you go or what you choose to do competition will exist. It's all about how well you market yourself and push your limits to succeed. Show a potential employer your hunger and desire to be a part of their team.
It takes a while to get an income stream from REI, especially SFRs. It also takes a while to acquire rental management skills. So don't be naive and take comments like "Just closed on unit 24" as being a fast track to riches. There's lots of hype and you never know if those comments are just 5k net deals using wholesaling- - you can't give up a paycheck for hype.
@Gabriel Amedee, thank you for the insight. I understand how there is a lot of hype out there. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not looking for any sort of a get rich quick plan. I don't want to give up my paycheck, I just want to work in the real estate arena. I'm tired of working in the help desk field.
You have the entirely wrong approach to work and need to make an attitude adjustment to face the real world.
You say your job is unfulfilling. That is the wrong attitude to start. The purpose of a job is not to fill your life it is to trade your time for money. A job is part of your life your life is not part of your job.
Get up, go to work, shut your brain down and earn a living. That is the basic process the majority of the work force does. You then take all that money they give you for doing practically nothing and do what it is intended for.
The only important part of life happens outside the hours you trade your time for money.
The time you do work at a mindless unstimulating job is the easiest part of making your real life happen.
If you are married ask your wife to wack you in the back of the head on the way out the door in the morning and shout " repeat after me honey.......I LOVE MY JOB." see you for supper.
Well, the two most obvious ways based on your current condition is become a real estate agent or work under/become some kind of general laborer or tradesman working under a GC. The latter would give you a steady paycheck, though probably smaller than what you make now. The former would be a little more unstable, as you can go from 3 deals in a day to 3 deals in a summer, but there are always going to be houses bought and sold no matter where you are. If you don't like competition, however, you better work for someone else, because doing anything else on the front-end of real estate always means you are competing with something or someone for those dollars.
PS: I think you should hide where you work, and maybe couch the terms a little softer. You never know, your boss might also be a BP aficionado and might recognize your name on the post :)
@Thomas S., I've honestly haven't had someone be so discouraging here on BP.
I never want to sit still. I don't want to get in a point in my life where I'm completely satisfied. My desire to go further in life is the only reason I am where I am now. I've gone against my parents wishes and have done something with my life (more than I want to share publicly). I know what it feels like when I'm stuck in a situation where I don't belong. There's more out there for me to accomplish.
I know that there are ways for me to get out of my job and into real estate faster than simply repeating "I LOVE MY JOB" over and over to my fiancee. She would slap me in the face for not doing what I always do, which is seeking to become something better.
I will never shut my brain down. Shutting your brain down is what I directly associate with middle-class. I work hard at my job every day. My job isn't the easiest part of my life. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but it's not a cake-walk in the AC.
I understand that I need to trade my time for money. I would rather do that in real estate than doing something that I hate.
I really appreciate your honesty. But, I'd rather hear something that makes me think, instead of someone telling me "shut your brain down..." I don't want to hear people say things that get me hyped or share some secret. I simply want wiser people to give me advice on what they think a 22 year old kid can do to put himself on the right path to set himself up for success down the road.
I don't want to come off as being snappy. I'm just very passionate about furthering myself. I believe every problem has a solution. I just want to be willing to look for, and implement, the solution when (not if) I find it.
As someone who has worked a soul sucking job for over 10 years, I am sympathetic to your plight. That being said, I've also done the real estate thing full time (as a realtor) and done enough marketing to know that it would drive me nuts to do it full time. (There are many other paths to wealth in real estate so I can't really comment on those.)
Basically, my comment to you, is that you probably should really think about getting a different job as there's nothing inherently magical about real estate as a profession in my opinion (at least as compared to other entrepreneurial activities).
The job is your single greatest asset as it opens the door to financing that is the life blood for buy and hold investing. It's stupid but banks love W-2 income and I don't think you realize just how much harder it is to build a portfolio on your own without access to that great financing.
Finally, I have found that as long as I have a real estate project going, it keeps me interested (or at least distracted) enough to get me through the day to day slog. Maybe you just need to just into an RE investment sooner rather than later.
Cut your debt load to as much as possible. Living with low debt and liabilities is the first step at freedom. I hate debt that is not making me money. Money = freedom to me. I would not overlook diving into your finances and trim the fat. Do that along with building some passive income via some rental investments. You will have more to invest with low debt therefore speeding up your plans. I would make low monthly output(and I do) my primary goal while still working. Then the passive income you build could be the safety net to make the plunge of leaving your day job. I have done exactly this and as I need my job less and less I am starting to see the exit at the rat race of life.
I happen to have high paying skills in computers. I am doing W2, 1099 and investments. I happen to enjoy my job but I do not enjoy having to have a day job. So leverage your job and income now, cut bills and debt to minimum, build some passive income as a safety net and the financial freedom you desire is right around the corner.
One other thing. If you have a end game and a plan and if you realize your job can be used as a tool to get to where you want. You might not despise it as much.
@John Chapman, thank you very much for the advice! That really means a lot to me. I'm looking for a different job in the area, but not having much luck beyond minimum wage positions. I would love to get into sales, but that's not my end goal. I want to get into investing full-time. I want to buy and flip, buy and hold, wholesale, manage, and general construction as well. I would love to farm as well, so that's something I am figuring out how to do as passively as possible. I was raised on a farm, so I understand out non-passive it can be.
Thank you so much for the advice! It's great to hear it from someone who has been in similar situation.
@Marques J., I don't have any debt to my name (except credits cards that I pay off monthly). I live of of very little so almost everything I make, I can save. What you are doing is what I want to do. Thank you for the encouragement and advice!
@Dakoda Spencer I agree with what @John Chapman said... your job is your competitive advantage over your other investors.
Okay..
I think you need to change your mindset.
Hear me out... Learn, read and listen to BP podcasts (and other REI themed podcasts) while you are still employed. Write out a path.
I work a full time job at a large biotech (sales/marketing), I'm a very active real estate investor and am a Broker with Keller Williams Elite in OKC. (So yeah... I know the struggle!)
As a Broker, I'll give you this advice: If you want to become an agent, go take all of the classes online while you are employed. Join a brokerage. Tons of part time agents around. It's going to take you a while to get up to speed on their systems and policy. You can do this part time while you are still working.
Listen to BP webinars on your lunch hour. Start going to your local REIA and real estate Meetups at night. Get the flow going before you even consider quitting
(FYI - Ketchup and crackers are overrated... I grew up poor. :-)
You always want to be in a position of power to negotiate. I've seen some desperate deals done and (especially in the beginning) you're going to make some whopper mistakes. Totally cool if you have some income to fall back on..
Network like crazy! Get to know people and see who you feel you can work with or trust. Do a partnership with an experienced investor... find the deal and/or supply capital. You will realize that it's not rocket science but it's something you need to learn over time. Why not learn why you are still employed? That's my point.
If you haven't already, read the Four Hour Work Week for tips on how to streamline your job so you can get more time for REI. Read the E-myth.
Next...
Figure out your Freedom Number - Write down your income (both before and after taxes). Write down all of your benefits (health insurance, staplers ;-), day care reimbursement, cell phone,... I don't know... whatever your corporate benefits are...
Get that number.
Then get your expenses. Put a balance sheet together. (you're going to need this when you talk to banks for cash unless you have it sitting in the bank already)
That's how much you need to make in real estate passively in order to comfortably leave your job.
Go talk to some bankers. Ask them about financing for your current income level. Then ask them how things would change if you were to do REI full time. It will be a different conversation.
Chart it out. Get motivated as you go through your RE journey and start to see progress. Break it down into small pieces that you can do every day.
Tip: Ask your boss if you can take David Allen's Getting Things Done Class. Big companies like IBM love that stuff! LOL Also, now's the time to get the company to pay for "Difficult conversations" courses, Excell classes, database classes, etc.. You're boss will think that you are a super motivated worker bee and want to work on "your development plan!" Cool, boss man. Think that.
I have bought over 32+ units last year while working a full time gig. I did this through lots of hard work, time management, partnerships and motivation. You can do this but seriously, you'll be in a much better position if you can hold out and not quit.
@Dakoda Spencer Just out of curiosity...how do you know you will like real estate investing?? Do you already have a rental? Have you fixed and flipped yet? Been a GC on a project?
If I were you I would find the niche I would like to try first in real estate and do that with your W-2 job. Go get a rental and see how you like it. Try the BRRR method and see if that's for you. A person can do the BRRR strategy pretty easy with a full time job. How knows maybe you won't like the head aches involed with it, doing rehab, or managing contractors, screening tenants, dealing with tenants, etc... Do this first then you don't risk losing a paycheck and then not "loving your REI" job and be starting from square one twice.
For me, I use REI as a way to make my W-2 job more full-filling. I see my W-2 job as a way to get more properties and that keeps m fired up.
Burn the boats! If you hate your job that bad at least you'll be happy! That's what I did. Loved my job, but hated the turd I worked for. Walked in one day and said, "It's been fun, but it ain't fun no more." Then I walked out and went to a landlord luncheon even though I only had one or two rentals at the time. I don't think I even had much money saved. I didn't really care. I knew that come Monday, I wouldn't have to see that miserable S.O.B.'s face again.
Money isn't the secret formula for happiness. If it were, there wouldn't be so many celebrities offing themselves every year. Lots of ways to make money in this game.
First off, I commend you for being as honest as you have been, especially with total strangers, many who have already judged you without taking the time to learn much about your situation so they could have judged fairly.
Second, I don't think you should stay in a job you hate. I also think leaving for a job in RE isn't a great option either.
I have two jobs. One is a police officer, the other is a realtor. I also invest heavily in real estate.
I believe for most new agents, the best thing they can do is work two jobs. The majority of your RE business will come from the coworkers you have at IBM. Think about that.
Here is something else to think about-rather than phrase this question in an either/or matter (either I work at my soul crushing job OR I work in my passion, real estate) maybe you could look for an option somewhere in the middle.
If you hate your job, what options do you have to use the skill set you have learned there to find a better job? Can you promote? Is there a better division to work in where people are happier? Can you work the same vocation but at a different employer?
Chasing passions doesn't always make sense financially, but if you're working hard like you say it might be in you best interest to start putting that effort into a place where it will get you ahead. If you are really hating your job as much as you say, start looking to impress people enough to where you can get a better position, better opportunity, or better employer in the same field. The RE doors will open when you are ready.
@Thomas S. - Figure out what you want to do and act on it. Everyone is a little nervous starting something new, but once you take the plunge the water gets warmer once your body adjusts.
@Dakoda Spencer I think @Theresa Nicoletto has given you some great advice on taking advantage of some of the perks working at a place like IBM. Further your education and development and let them help you, but you have to shift your perspective.
Figure out the lifestyle you want and start building towards it. Not sure why you think you need a full-time RE job, as opposed to just income. Get as much passive income coming in as possible, but figure out what the hell you want to do. Ask yourself what you would do with your time if you didn't need money?
@Dakoda Spencer - if you have a 401k through IBM you could look at taking a loan. You should be able to pull out 50% of your 401k funds up to $50,000 (could vary, but that's pretty common.) This would allow you to get started investing in properties to flip, buy and hold, tax deeds or even allow you to contribute to a fund like Realty Shares where you can be a passive investor and earn better returns than you're probably getting in your 401k right now. And as you start investing, you can work your way out of your FT job. But having that W2 income is going to make it easier for you to get started both because it will help you qualify for loans and will give you some income to keep you afloat while you start investing. So I recommend you start investing while you still have your job, figure out if it's for you, then make the plunge when you're comfortable you know what you're doing.
Dakoda Spencer nice to hear your story. Keyser needs some nice rentals with Potomac State being there. Nice to see another WV member. I'm in Morgantown currently!
I'm sorry you're getting so much hate on here. I also quit my job before it was the best financial decision for me. That said, I did have 12 units and enough cashflow to live (frugally) on. If you truly hate your job, but haven't built up a safety net, I'd suggest you do one of two things:
1. Stay at your job for two more years, but start buying up real estate aggressively during that time. "House hack" the first fourplex in a dingy neighborhood that has decent numbers that you can find. That'll allow you to put down a low down payment and help you save up the 25% you'll need to buy an investment property. You should aim for property #2 in 6 months. After a year, move to your next fourplex and repeat. After two years you should end up with 16 units, which will hopefully give you enough of a buffer to quit and experiment with different opportunities. Full disclosure, I tried to follow this model, and only ended up with 12 units after 2.5 years, but had I been smarter/luckier, it would have been very doable.
2. Start sending out resumes; we're at close to historic unemployment in the US (although I do seem to recall that WV isn't doing as well), so finding a new gig shouldn't be tough. You can still follow the model above; it'll probably take you a bit longer, but you'll be happier.
After all, isn't happiness the end goal for all of us?
I feel your pain. Every day, I have to say to myself "I love having a job." I don't love my job, but I do value the paycheck. I have treated my career like a game with a focus on growing my base salary. That has allowed me to stay focused on the bigger picture rather than getting discouraged by the aspects of my job that are not fulfilling. Now that I have 15+ years under my belt, I not only have the cash flow necessary for me to embark on the next part of the plan, I also have great network and invaluable skills to show for my time. Self-discipline is important in any career, and imperative in entrepreneurship. It sounds like you may need a little practice in that department. I certainly do not want to be a wage-slave forever, but right now, it is a step I can't afford to skip.
So many people get a job and think that is all there is to it. I work for a Fortune 500 company that has locations all over the globe. I have moved 4 times to advance my base salary and sometimes, my position within the company. That would not have been possible if I had parked myself in one location and become a slave to the job waiting for the next opportunity for promotion. Get creative, approach your career like a game, and you may be surprised at how much more enjoyable it becomes.
@Theresa Nicoletto, your words of advice really inspire me! Reading your post alone shifted my perspective of my job. I've been trying to come up with my freedom number, but it's been really difficult getting it because things have been shifting around lately. I live off of basically nothing, so I'm trying to calculate what my freedom number will be after I am married to my fiancee.
I have both the "Four Hour Work Week" and "E Myth" on my list of books to read, but it makes sense to go ahead and move those closer to the top to read first.
@Mike Hanneman, that is a great question. I have worked with my brother and former employers working on and flipping houses. My mother's side of the family has a trailer park that I have assisted in managing for the past two years or so. My mom, and the others who own the park, don't have a clue what they are doing, so I give my advice when they ask. I have enjoyed myself every time I've touched RE. You're still right, though. I may not like it after I get full-time into it. So, I really appreciate your advice and wisdom.
@David Greene, I love your view on my situation. Yes, I want to leave my job. But, I agree with you that it isn't the best idea to "plunge" without having a cushion. I love your comment about business coming from my coworkers here at IBM. I've never thought about that, and that is the very reason I posted; for smarter people to show me things that I can't see in my position, here on the inside of my life. I've been talking with my manager about what I need to do to further my career. I think I'm on the right path for a better position. There aren't really any other employers in the area that can even compete with this company.
@Chris Low, I don't have the option for a 401k in my position. There are several different employee types here.
@Andrew Rickli, it is fantastic to see someone on here so close to my area! I would love to connect with you outside of this forum and talk some. As you can see, I'm still in the beginning stages but I'm aware that I'm in the beginning stages. It would be great to talk to someone local in your area to see what is happen locally to us. Thanks for the encouragement!
Everyone, thank you so much for your advice! Not only has this shifted my perspective greatly, I hope it helps others who may be in the same situation as I am. I have been given some great advice and really look forward to implementing it!
I enjoy my real estate pursuits more than my 9 to 5 job and have had enough success in the real estate to quit my 9-5 job yet I have not. For me it is probably that I like the safety net but I will add the job satisfaction with my job has varied from extremely satisfying to not at all satisfying and currently is someone in the middle (closer to not satisfying). So I may be holding out hope that my next position is extremely satisfying.
If you never found the job satisfying why not simply switch jobs to something other real estate, something close to your current job? Real estate investing can be difficult, is best done with some capital and safety nets especially when starting. So my suggestion is you find a 9-5 job that provides more satisfaction than your current job even pays less. Then while having the safety net of the 9-5 job pursue your Real estate ambitions. If you are successful in a few years you can quit the 9-5 job. If you are not successful at least you have a safety net that does not suck the life out of you.
