Brand new and eager to start!

Brand new and eager to start!

Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2008 · 6 posts · 0 votes

Hi, everyone. I just joined the forums today and have spent the last hour or so reading several posts... I can't wait until I am as experienced as you folks are in making money in real estate!

My realtor has just found an 1100 sq ft. 1965 small brick ranch for sale at $149K. It's definitely a fixer-upper. They say it has a new metal roof, newer windows, and a newer bathroom, so the majority of the work needing to be done is more cosmetic (I hope)... a lady lived there for 20 years and is now selling. The yard is hidious and is very overgrown, the kitchen needs a redo, needs new floors, etc...

I've been interested in real estate for the last decade but have been very shy about actually jumping in. This house looks promising as it's in a great location -- I could fix it up, rent it or sell it depending on whatever happens. Typical houses in the area that have been remodeled comp for around $250K and rent prices range from $800-$1000 for this size house.

Do I just go into a local bank and ask for a real estate investment loan? Would that be the best thing to do? I currently own my home and have been there for 2 years. I have about $10K cash to put into the project but anything over that would need to go on credit cards. I'd like to pay as little as possible for the house... like $110K or something ridiculously low...I have A+ credit and have never had a problem with credit so the bank financing piece doesn't worry me too much but I'm essentially cash poor (I've been putting any excess cash into retirement accounts that I will not tap into)...

What advice do you guys have for me in this situation?

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    18y

    So, please be sure to spend some time learning the business before you jump in. Reading here is a good start. There are numerous books on the topic, or really, various sub-topics.

    Paying $149K for a house that rents for $800 is a sure way to lose money.

    If you can pay $149K, invest minimal fixup, and sell for $250K you have a great deal.

    If you go to a bank they will want 20% down. Maybe, maybe you can find someone who will let you get by with 10%. They will base the loan on the purchase price, not the after repaired value.

    You may be able to find a hard money lender who will base the loan on the ARV, and give you both purchase money and rehab money. You would typically have to front the money for the repairs, then get reimbursed.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    18y

    Okay, here's a quick primer on how to determine whether you have a reasonable rental property or not...

    First, you want to start by figuring out two things that will be specific to this property: INCOME & EXPENSES

    INCOME
    ---------
    Your income is going to be (in most cases) just from the rent you are collecting. In your case, you say that you expect rent to be $800-1000 for this house.

    But, don't forget that your property may not always be rented:

    Vacancy: You're not going to have the property rented continuously; you'll need to find tenants when you first acquire the property and whenever tenants move out. Sometimes it could take a month or two or five to rent a place. You need to figure out what % of the time the property is likely to be vacant, and consider that loss of income.

    Suppose that for your property, you expect it to be vacant one month each year, on average. If that's the case, your income is actually 11/12 of what your monthly rent is.

    So, let's assume that for your property, you receive the best case rental rate, $1000/month, or $12,000 per year. But, with your 8.3% vacancy (one month per year), your income is actually $11,000 per year.

    EXPENSES
    ------------
    There are a lot of things that contribute to the cost of owning a rental property, and you're going to need to account for each of them. Here are the basic expenses you must consider (there are others, but this is a good start):

    Property Taxes
    Insurance
    Maintenance
    Utilities (often the landlord pays the water bill)
    Upkeep (lawn care, etc)
    Advertising (how are you going to find renters?)
    Administrative (do you need a book-keeper, attorney, CPA, etc?)
    Property Management (will you have someone else manage your prop?)

    If you want to own a rental, you'll need to be able to determine what each of these expenses will be. Things like taxes and insurance are easy enough to find out, but about things like maintenance and administrative costs? Those take some experience to be able to estimate. Ultimately, you'll need to be able to accurately estimate those for your specific property.

    For the sake of argument, let's be very optimistic, and assume that the expenses for your property end up being $4000/year. In actuality, they'd probably be closer to $4500-5000 per year for this place.

    NET OPERATING INCOME
    -----------------------------
    So, you now have your income ($11,000/year) and you have your expenses ($4000/year). This is enough information to determine your net operating income, for which the formula is:

    NOI = Income - Expenses

    NOI is the amount of money you have left over after receiving all income and paying all expenses on your property. This is the money you have left over to pay your mortgage (also called debt service) and to provide you profit.

    Let's calculate your NOI for this property:

    NOI = Income - Expenses = $11,000 - $4,000 = $7,000

    Your NOI is $7,000 per year, so you have $7,000 left over after expenses to cover your debt service and profit for the year.

    CASH FLOW
    --------------
    Cash flow is the amount of profit you have at the end of the year. Cash flow is basically figure out as such:

    Cash Flow = NOI - Debt Service

    We already know your NOI, so now let's figure out your debt service. You say that you want the house to come down to a selling price of $110,000 and you also say that you only have $10,000 to put down as a downpayment.

    Best case, you'll agree to purchase the house for $110,000, and your lender will allow you to put down 9% of the purchase price as a downpayment (making your downpayment $9900). Also, let's assume you pay no closing costs, and you get a great rate on a 30 year fixed mortgage -- 6%.

    Your payments on this loan will be exactly $600/month, or $7,200/year.

    So, now we have the info we need to calculate cash flow:

    Cash Flow = NOI - Debt Service = $7,000 - $7,200 = ($200)

    So, after all is said and done, you profit on this house is -$200 per year. That's right, you're losing $200 a year on this "investment." And that is assuming lots of very optimistic things, such as:

    - High Rental Rate
    - Low Expenses
    - Low Purchase Price
    - Great Mortgage Rate

    So, as a rental, if you're looking for cash flow, this probably isn't the place for you...

    Hope that helps!

  • Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2008 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Wow, thanks so much for all that information. This is exactly what I needed to know. I do appreciate it!

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    18y

    That detailed writeup gives you a great into to how to break down a deal. And knowing all the things to consider when working out the expenses is useful. I'll warn you, however, that getting accurate values for future expenses is impossible. You can find out what some items, like taxes and insurance will cost you. Others, like utilities you might have to pay can be found with some accuracy (though, search for the $1000 water bill thread.) Others, like maintenance, vacancy, and legal fees are impossible. Careful screening will help. But you may still run into the buzz saw of a bad tenant who knocks holes in walls and takes two months to evict.

    That's why many people use a flat percentage, like the "50% rule" to estimate expenses. If you note, in the above example, if you use the value of $5000 for expenses, and $1000 for vacancy, you're right at $6000, or 50% of the gross rent ($12,000.)

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