The agent is telling you what the market is doing based on their experience. That doesn't mean if you go off market and look long and hard enough you will not find your deal. That may take you 3 months, 6 months, 1 year and hundreds of offers to get there. On a time cost basis in a heated market that agent would be breaking even or losing money for the time involved. Investors want a deal. It doesn't matter who your clients are. I am in the commercial realm. Some of my clients have millions in cash to deploy on properties we are evaluating. There is buying a deal and then there is out of touch with reality and market conditions. I have to run an effective business and I can't do that chasing Leprechauns looking for the one in 10,000 four leaf clover. My clients respect me and trust me to help find them the best value available. If they are unreasonable and not looking at the data for what it is then I can't work with them. Investors want to make the most money with the best use of their time. So do brokers and agents especially ones that are investors themselves. They can't go on wild goose chases that lead to nowhere. The brokers/agents transacting know up to the hour what things are trading at. I am not talking about mediocre brokers and agents. You can find those all over the place begging for business. This is especially rampant in residential real estate more so than commercial. It can't hurt for you to talk to other investors, agents local to you to see if they have properties off market where you could buy and make the numbers work. If you do it yourself you are talking a massive mail campaign and big bucks versus calling to find others leads you might could buy. I am not trying to discourage in any way I have just been in this business for awhile and many buyers do not understand if a broker/agent doesn't close something they do not generally get paid. So the broker/agent has to weigh time spent with the reality a property can be found and purchased the buyer Is wanting. If the broker/agent feels they will have a very tough time finding such a property then the task becomes a long shot and a loss leader to make money. I hope it helps.

@Joshua Fletcherr Getting another Agent to put in multiple low ball offers on 60-90k houses is gonna be a tough find. It's an ineffective use of their time. Im not saying it's a bad strategy on your part but for the agent it's high time commitment with a low reward Why not get a license yourself? Then you can write offers all over town until you secure that deal your looking for?

That may be true however the agent might be more attuned the momentum of the market in terms of what a marketable property will contract for in that particular market than some investors since they are buying and selling property day to day. It also depends on the agents level of competence as well. The problem with why investors and agents clash sometimes is that agents know investors want a good deal but they may not understand the metrics you're using to determine what a good deal is and also they want to protect their reputation by not submitting a bunch of impractical offers for a given listing to a listing agent that they may want to work with in the future.A fully renovated home in great owner occupancy condition generally cannot be be low balled in most cases unless the seller had dire need to sell within a specific period of time but that may be due to the liquidity needs of the seller. In a specific market where buyer and seller are not under duress to sell with a marketable property it will be bashful to an agent who is looking to build a name for her/himself to submit a low ball offer unless if its warranted by some other reason.Properties or owners who have duress with value add potential whether from zoning, entitlements, legal, depreciation to functional obsolesence, sellers personal reason, and other can present a good opportunity for an investor. I always try to help the agents I work with from the loan officer perspective of what an investor is hoping to realize from a purchase.

Hey welcome to the site. Your agent is telling you correct. if your trying to buy retail properties the owners are not going to accept low ball offers. you need to have your agent seek properties that are distressed, foreclosed bank owned or find a motivated seller. What is your price range? There are great deals in westland and the surrounding area you just have to find them. Also make sure your agent is investor friendly.

Dump her...she just isn't interested in doing the work. The correct response from her is that "there is a fine art to lowballing kind sir, which i shall allow you to learn from i" the fact she uses a generalization also implies lazy thinking, the reality is that each houses situation is its own.

First, remember the old saw, "Wanting and Getting are two different things". That applies to you, and to the seller, too. Just because a seller is asking a certain price, that does not mean that the market will support the price. The seller must understand the market and the choices a rational buyer has to pick from. So a property with 270 DOM is a good candidate for a "low-ball" offer because the asking price is obviously too high, and sooner or later the seller will "get real". But so what? If your goal is to get a price way below asking, and the asking is way way too high, you're not getting a bargain, you're just buying at market. So what do you want? To brag that: A. you got it $20K below asking, or that B. you got it and immediately gained $20K equity? Those are two very different things. If it's A. then it's easy, just focus on stuff with 6-9 months on the market (270 DOM), you'll get those "deals". If it's B. well, why would anyone sell you property at a price $20K below market (what others would pay)? That's where you have to focus your thoughts. The seller would have to have a problem that's more important than $20K, wouldn't they? What kind of problem? Time. Something nasty. Something ugly. Something neither they nor a retail buyer wants. But it has to be something you can fix. See, otherwise you don't bring anything to the deal except that you're cheap. Here's the way you do it. You find a new way to describe yourself, to both the the agent and the seller. To Get what you Want, you may have to change how you think. Maybe you say to the agent "I'm a Real Estate Thief. I'm out to steal properties, because I can fix a variety of problems that are more important to the seller than the price he's asking. Mr Agent, when you have a desperate seller, let me know. I can act quickly, I can accept problems, I'll do the deal when the seller just has to sell. Now, don't bother me with retail deals. But do tell all your agent friends that you have a thief who WILL CLOSE, pretty much no matter what the problem." Now to be able to do that, you gotta be able to do that. Close. Stop wasting your time being a cheapskate, become a specific type of investor, maybe a thief; skilled in finding and fixing problems. When you can fix problems that no one else wants, you'll be getting properties with built-in equity. I've been in this 30 years, retail, wholesale, or thief as the situation warrants. Been there, done that. You can too. JMO, YMMV Bob H: CCIM, MBA, AZ Agent, Investor

Since your an investor instead of an agent guess what? An agent trying to draw top price out of you is doing her job but you as an investor and not a agent you have a secret weapon, you can go straight to the owner and talk to them directly, There is no law requiring you to only deal with the agent. I can't tell you how many times I have heard we have ten offers on the table so give me you highest and best, and the truth is they didn't have an actual written offer any where in sight, just wanted a better shot at a bigger commission.. Now days as a broker I can't bypass the listing agent, but my client can, and we get a deal, many times the listing agent never even submitted the offer.Had this happen on REO's several times, but expected that. During my early investor years I learned to put a clause in my offers going through an agent that only I was to present the offer directly to the owners, so the listing agent couldn't just call the seller and say I have an offer I know you won't be interested in so you want me to tell them no don't you? If they even did that. Many an agent found out that ignoring that clause was a bad idea according to the department of real estate. They hated the idea that they couldn't see or hear the offer before I presented it. But the law requires them to present all offers, not just the ones the agent likes or wants to present and it got me deals the seller would have never seen if left up to the listing agent, and it didn't allow them to contact their buyers and shop the deal.

Look at it from the agent's perspective: Do I want to continue to write multiple low ball offers that have no chance in resulting in a commission?Also, I would look at your criteria and see if you're low balling is within reason. Are you trying to turn a reasonable 10 cap into 20 cap? Or are you buying in an emotional market where low balling by 10k is the only way you will cash flow?

@Joshua Fletcherr In order to clear up the low ball discusion have you sat down with this agent and shown her what kind of return you are expecting? Have you narrowed down what you are expecting? When you say just blindly taking 10-15k off the listed price, it sounds like you have no end goal in mind other than buying a listed property for a reduced price.On the other hand if you can break down the numbers to the agent, down payment, rehab costs, closing costs, what the market rents are in the area, expected expenses, and ultimatly what kind of return on your investment you are looking for it will paint a much better picture for the agent on why you are wanting to make the offers you are talking about. After all of that I would then ask the agent where they think you can find properties that meet your criteria. If they say not in the area you are currently looking at with retail buyers take the advise and search for either off market properties or find a new area.Just my two cents.

IMO, not really low ball. Is this agent working in the same market you are looking to purchase? And is she dealing in the same price range properties? Some agents don't like working on low-priced properties because of how much it involves and how little the commission is.

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Updated over 10 years ago, 06/12/2014

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Joshua FletcherrPoster

Wayne, MI

Starting Out

Dump my agent?

Joshua FletcherrPoster

Wayne, MI

Posted June 07, 2014 19:33

BP how goes it?

I'm currently on the prow for my first SFH (long term intentions in mind). I'll be buying in the Wayne/Westland area of Michigan.

According to my agent, as well as a couple of others that I was thinking about working with, this market is a "sellers market". Please listen to this conversation that occurred and let me know whether or not she is fully competent.

Me: "The #1 thing I'm looking for in my purchase is that the home purchase is a bargain. So my plan is to really go in and low ball at first, and then probably meet the seller somewhere in the middle."

Agent: "You have to understand that this is a sellers market. It has been for some time. So if you go in and low ball these properties I can tell you that you're gonna be disappointed. They'll just say no. "

Me: "But aren't they at least likely to counter offer?"

Agent: "No not really because they're all getting multiple offers. They're likely to ignore low balls. I haven't helped sell or purchase on a home that hasn't had multiple offers in 2 years"

Of note: we certainly did not define what a "low ball" is. That is of course something that I'll be seeking clarification on. I have always thought of it as like 10,000 below listing or something of the like.

Please lend me your thoughts. Is she being unreasonable or am I just uneducated? Both? Neither?

Thank you thank you!

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