Taking over 5 units from a family member - am I crazy?

Taking over 5 units from a family member - am I crazy?

Member since 2023 · 1 post · 2 votes

Hi all,

New to Bigger Pockets but started following real estate closely a long time ago. Currently in grad school but previously worked in hybrid social service/tenant management roles inside affordable housing developments so I've seen some of the worst of the worst. Long-term, I'd love to get into developing HUD properties on the 50+ unit scale. But back to reality...

I have a family member who has basically inherited and let a duplex and triplex go completely to pot. Duplex is empty with a few hundred in back taxes, triplex is 2/3 rented way below market. Not a great situation. However, these buildings have no mortgages or liens and the areas have become quite desirable to young professionals since acquired. He's lost other properties in the past just letting them go to sheriff sale on back taxes and this is all that's left. 

He does not have the capital to rehab obviously but I have another family member who is basically willing to put up the cash for renos but wants nothing to do with management, nor the old owner having any say over the buildings - I would manage. The owner needs the stable income a lot more than the pennies on the dollar from a sale at present so I am meeting with an accountant next week for the first time to pick their brain about a structured buyout. I won't go too far into it here but I have some ideas and hope the CPA will have better ones. 

If, and it is a big if, we can get this structured favorably, that would leave a 

2BR with finished attic (list as 3?) in the slightly less desirable area, 12-1500 sqft (goal $14-1700/mo)

1BR below it with living and dining, porch, and great stained glass and architectural features, 1000 sqft (goal $11-1300/mo)

This building also has one driveway space thinking $50/mo

2 x 2BRs, smaller but in the more desirable location ~1000 sq ft (goal $14-1600/mo)

1 BR small in the more desirable location ~ 800 sq ft (goal $9-1100/mo)

TR: 6200-7300/mo

Order of operations would be as follows: 

1) Accounting and structuring - still a lot TBD but I am meeting with a CPA firm with a lot of real estate structuring and consulting experience, I expect they'll be pretty expensive but this doesn't seem like a good place to cheap out. I would like to use an AIO software like Stessa or Turbotenant for my bookkeeping, looking for opinions on those. The banking capability in Stessa is compelling.

2) Rehabbing - I can do some finish work myself with a handyman close by who used to work on the units for the owner, and have him for day to day maintenance help. Theoretically we could do the renos ourselves but we did just the bottom floor of a house together last year and it took forever. (looks expensive though)

I also have a solid connection with a contractor who does fast work at his labor costs if I buy and source the materials. This would be the most work for me but I know where to go and putting in the leg work to get sturdy, luxury cabinets and finishes at auction and discount will be a big part of the strategy. I have a clear goal tenant in mind, and pay close attention to the trends and lifestyle amenities that'll help us get to the top of the market from finish aesthetics to secure bike storage. 

Still, I think I wouldn't want to budget less than $20k per unit reno, and the duplex may need a new roof or will in the next five years which will be at least another $20k. They may come in under that but I haven't walked through with my contractor yet. The triplex technically still has cashflow at the moment so I think I would be aggressive on the duplex then look at cash for keys in the triplex and get that done in one fell swoop. 

3) Renting and Managing - While not the most expensive areas overall, there is demand in these areas from people paying at or above the top range I listed for high quality units. These were cheap units at the bottom of the market for a long time and treated as such, but times have changed. 

I'd like to modernize the experience for tenants of the properties so I am concerned with tenant features on the AIO platform e.g.; Turbotenant seems to offer more to tenants with the credit building feature and more options to pay. Mostly I just want a platform that reliably works for pre-screening, credit, background, leasing, payment, and reporting maintenance issues. Ease of tracking expenses for me and accountants is the other major factor for me on the software.

I'm hoping some experienced voices could provide a sanity check, but if we can thread the needle financially this would be a win-win-win at a time when money is only getting more expensive. These could be beautiful properties that add to their blocks rather than detract but I need to take the opportunity myself, it's not going to fall out of the sky. I've always loved and learned about houses, from mechanicals to design, and I'm ready to work. Am I ready? Am I crazy? 

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Real Estate Consultant · Reston, VA · Member since 2022 · 513 posts · 521 votes
2y

Regarding your accounting software question, look into Baselane. Baselane has banking capabilities, bookkeeping capabilities and property management functions like rent collection. As someone who has taken over multiple units at once before, it can be hard to onboard new properties on certain softwares. Baselane makes onboarding new properties very easy!

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  • Randall AlanPro Member
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Thomas C.:

    Hi all,

    New to Bigger Pockets but started following real estate closely a long time ago. Currently in grad school but previously worked in hybrid social service/tenant management roles inside affordable housing developments so I've seen some of the worst of the worst. Long-term, I'd love to get into developing HUD properties on the 50+ unit scale. But back to reality...

    I have a family member who has basically inherited and let a duplex and triplex go completely to pot. Duplex is empty with a few hundred in back taxes, triplex is 2/3 rented way below market. Not a great situation. However, these buildings have no mortgages or liens and the areas have become quite desirable to young professionals since acquired. He's lost other properties in the past just letting them go to sheriff sale on back taxes and this is all that's left. 

    He does not have the capital to rehab obviously but I have another family member who is basically willing to put up the cash for renos but wants nothing to do with management, nor the old owner having any say over the buildings - I would manage. The owner needs the stable income a lot more than the pennies on the dollar from a sale at present so I am meeting with an accountant next week for the first time to pick their brain about a structured buyout. I won't go too far into it here but I have some ideas and hope the CPA will have better ones. 

    If, and it is a big if, we can get this structured favorably, that would leave a 

    2BR with finished attic (list as 3?) in the slightly less desirable area, 12-1500 sqft (goal $14-1700/mo)

    1BR below it with living and dining, porch, and great stained glass and architectural features, 1000 sqft (goal $11-1300/mo)

    This building also has one driveway space thinking $50/mo

    2 x 2BRs, smaller but in the more desirable location ~1000 sq ft (goal $14-1600/mo)

    1 BR small in the more desirable location ~ 800 sq ft (goal $9-1100/mo)

    TR: 6200-7300/mo

    Order of operations would be as follows: 

    1) Accounting and structuring - still a lot TBD but I am meeting with a CPA firm with a lot of real estate structuring and consulting experience, I expect they'll be pretty expensive but this doesn't seem like a good place to cheap out. I would like to use an AIO software like Stessa or Turbotenant for my bookkeeping, looking for opinions on those. The banking capability in Stessa is compelling.

    2) Rehabbing - I can do some finish work myself with a handyman close by who used to work on the units for the owner, and have him for day to day maintenance help. Theoretically we could do the renos ourselves but we did just the bottom floor of a house together last year and it took forever. (looks expensive though)

    I also have a solid connection with a contractor who does fast work at his labor costs if I buy and source the materials. This would be the most work for me but I know where to go and putting in the leg work to get sturdy, luxury cabinets and finishes at auction and discount will be a big part of the strategy. I have a clear goal tenant in mind, and pay close attention to the trends and lifestyle amenities that'll help us get to the top of the market from finish aesthetics to secure bike storage. 

    Still, I think I wouldn't want to budget less than $20k per unit reno, and the duplex may need a new roof or will in the next five years which will be at least another $20k. They may come in under that but I haven't walked through with my contractor yet. The triplex technically still has cashflow at the moment so I think I would be aggressive on the duplex then look at cash for keys in the triplex and get that done in one fell swoop. 

    3) Renting and Managing - While not the most expensive areas overall, there is demand in these areas from people paying at or above the top range I listed for high quality units. These were cheap units at the bottom of the market for a long time and treated as such, but times have changed. 

    I'd like to modernize the experience for tenants of the properties so I am concerned with tenant features on the AIO platform e.g.; Turbotenant seems to offer more to tenants with the credit building feature and more options to pay. Mostly I just want a platform that reliably works for pre-screening, credit, background, leasing, payment, and reporting maintenance issues. Ease of tracking expenses for me and accountants is the other major factor for me on the software.

    I'm hoping some experienced voices could provide a sanity check, but if we can thread the needle financially this would be a win-win-win at a time when money is only getting more expensive. These could be beautiful properties that add to their blocks rather than detract but I need to take the opportunity myself, it's not going to fall out of the sky. I've always loved and learned about houses, from mechanicals to design, and I'm ready to work. Am I ready? Am I crazy? 

    @Thomas C.

    You aren't crazy.  It seem like a good opportunity to get into real estate with others fronting the effort.  Lots of moving parts though.  I'm not a huge fan of the 3 way split - if the current owner is going to retain the properties, but you are going to rehab and manage them, and then you have another person fronting the money to fix them up.  Is that what I am reading?  It's a little hard to understand where you say "the owner needs a steady income" who 'the owner' is. 

    If it were me, I would try to buy out the current owner, and do a partnership with your money person.  This way you are down to 2 people in the equation, not 3.  There is no need for a manager down the road if you fix up the property for the current owner.  I can see you getting written out of the equation.  Your better move is to buy them from the current owner at a value that represents what they are worth today.  Then fix them up with the help of your money person, and pay him off for his investment (or partner with him on them possibly).  You need to figure out how to structure the deal where everyone wins.  But as for yourself, I don't see you winning if your name isn't on the title.

    Also, rehabs, if you haven't done them, can be daunting.  We have done about 6 flips.  Trust me, you will run into things you didn't expect... it just happens.  Also - make sure your handyman knows how to do things to code.  We went into a project with a handyman, and after 95% of the work was done, had to pull a permit for siding with an outside company, which got the county looking at the windows, which our 'handyman' didn't do correctly.  They had to all be pulled back out and done correctly (this after all the interior renovations had been completed).  This was on a 1925 house with 25 windows.  In short, it cost us $50,000 extra - just to redo the windows(!!!!!!) because we had to hire an architect, a project manager, and a framer who was willing to take on the project.  Fun fact - the $50,000 was AFTER the expense of buying the windows.  Point being - What you don't know can come back and bite you in the butt!  So be careful there if you are talking about any major renovations!  We also had to have the plumbing and electrical more or less 're-certified' by licensed electricians and plumbers - which some of which wasn't done to code either. (good times!)

    All the best!

    Randy

  • Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Randall Alan:
    Quote from @Thomas C.:

    Hi all,

    New to Bigger Pockets but started following real estate closely a long time ago. Currently in grad school but previously worked in hybrid social service/tenant management roles inside affordable housing developments so I've seen some of the worst of the worst. Long-term, I'd love to get into developing HUD properties on the 50+ unit scale. But back to reality...

    I have a family member who has basically inherited and let a duplex and triplex go completely to pot. Duplex is empty with a few hundred in back taxes, triplex is 2/3 rented way below market. Not a great situation. However, these buildings have no mortgages or liens and the areas have become quite desirable to young professionals since acquired. He's lost other properties in the past just letting them go to sheriff sale on back taxes and this is all that's left. 

    He does not have the capital to rehab obviously but I have another family member who is basically willing to put up the cash for renos but wants nothing to do with management, nor the old owner having any say over the buildings - I would manage. The owner needs the stable income a lot more than the pennies on the dollar from a sale at present so I am meeting with an accountant next week for the first time to pick their brain about a structured buyout. I won't go too far into it here but I have some ideas and hope the CPA will have better ones. 

    If, and it is a big if, we can get this structured favorably, that would leave a 

    2BR with finished attic (list as 3?) in the slightly less desirable area, 12-1500 sqft (goal $14-1700/mo)

    1BR below it with living and dining, porch, and great stained glass and architectural features, 1000 sqft (goal $11-1300/mo)

    This building also has one driveway space thinking $50/mo

    2 x 2BRs, smaller but in the more desirable location ~1000 sq ft (goal $14-1600/mo)

    1 BR small in the more desirable location ~ 800 sq ft (goal $9-1100/mo)

    TR: 6200-7300/mo

    Order of operations would be as follows: 

    1) Accounting and structuring - still a lot TBD but I am meeting with a CPA firm with a lot of real estate structuring and consulting experience, I expect they'll be pretty expensive but this doesn't seem like a good place to cheap out. I would like to use an AIO software like Stessa or Turbotenant for my bookkeeping, looking for opinions on those. The banking capability in Stessa is compelling.

    2) Rehabbing - I can do some finish work myself with a handyman close by who used to work on the units for the owner, and have him for day to day maintenance help. Theoretically we could do the renos ourselves but we did just the bottom floor of a house together last year and it took forever. (looks expensive though)

    I also have a solid connection with a contractor who does fast work at his labor costs if I buy and source the materials. This would be the most work for me but I know where to go and putting in the leg work to get sturdy, luxury cabinets and finishes at auction and discount will be a big part of the strategy. I have a clear goal tenant in mind, and pay close attention to the trends and lifestyle amenities that'll help us get to the top of the market from finish aesthetics to secure bike storage. 

    Still, I think I wouldn't want to budget less than $20k per unit reno, and the duplex may need a new roof or will in the next five years which will be at least another $20k. They may come in under that but I haven't walked through with my contractor yet. The triplex technically still has cashflow at the moment so I think I would be aggressive on the duplex then look at cash for keys in the triplex and get that done in one fell swoop. 

    3) Renting and Managing - While not the most expensive areas overall, there is demand in these areas from people paying at or above the top range I listed for high quality units. These were cheap units at the bottom of the market for a long time and treated as such, but times have changed. 

    I'd like to modernize the experience for tenants of the properties so I am concerned with tenant features on the AIO platform e.g.; Turbotenant seems to offer more to tenants with the credit building feature and more options to pay. Mostly I just want a platform that reliably works for pre-screening, credit, background, leasing, payment, and reporting maintenance issues. Ease of tracking expenses for me and accountants is the other major factor for me on the software.

    I'm hoping some experienced voices could provide a sanity check, but if we can thread the needle financially this would be a win-win-win at a time when money is only getting more expensive. These could be beautiful properties that add to their blocks rather than detract but I need to take the opportunity myself, it's not going to fall out of the sky. I've always loved and learned about houses, from mechanicals to design, and I'm ready to work. Am I ready? Am I crazy? 

    @Thomas C.

    You aren't crazy.  It seem like a good opportunity to get into real estate with others fronting the effort.  Lots of moving parts though.  I'm not a huge fan of the 3 way split - if the current owner is going to retain the properties, but you are going to rehab and manage them, and then you have another person fronting the money to fix them up.  Is that what I am reading?  It's a little hard to understand where you say "the owner needs a steady income" who 'the owner' is. 

    If it were me, I would try to buy out the current owner, and do a partnership with your money person.  This way you are down to 2 people in the equation, not 3.  There is no need for a manager down the road if you fix up the property for the current owner.  I can see you getting written out of the equation.  Your better move is to buy them from the current owner at a value that represents what they are worth today.  Then fix them up with the help of your money person, and pay him off for his investment (or partner with him on them possibly).  You need to figure out how to structure the deal where everyone wins.  But as for yourself, I don't see you winning if your name isn't on the title.

    Also, rehabs, if you haven't done them, can be daunting.  We have done about 6 flips.  Trust me, you will run into things you didn't expect... it just happens.  Also - make sure your handyman knows how to do things to code.  We went into a project with a handyman, and after 95% of the work was done, had to pull a permit for siding with an outside company, which got the county looking at the windows, which our 'handyman' didn't do correctly.  They had to all be pulled back out and done correctly (this after all the interior renovations had been completed).  This was on a 1925 house with 25 windows.  In short, it cost us $50,000 extra - just to redo the windows(!!!!!!) because we had to hire an architect, a project manager, and a framer who was willing to take on the project.  Fun fact - the $50,000 was AFTER the expense of buying the windows.  Point being - What you don't know can come back and bite you in the butt!  So be careful there if you are talking about any major renovations!  We also had to have the plumbing and electrical more or less 're-certified' by licensed electricians and plumbers - which some of which wasn't done to code either. (good times!)

    All the best!

    Randy


     I completely agree, seek the option to own and buyout current owner. Seems there is no real long term interest in what this investment could provide back, especially allowing the properties to go under as well as losing other properties prior due to same cause. I would personally be all over this to assess and work hard to form the opportunity into what you would desire.

  • Robert PaynePro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Bowling Green, KY · Member since 2023 · 36 posts · 36 votes
    2y
    I agree that not taking ownership of the property would be a mistake that will likely bite you later. I suggest one of two options. 

    1. Since you said the owner needs the income rather than the lump sum, buy the properties and structure an owner carry note that secures their income stream for 15-30 years. You need to be able to afford the note payments until you get everything running, but it should be beneficial to both of you.

    2. Move the properties to an LLC where you are partners or a trust where you are both beneficiaries. This protects you from wasting your time and effort on the properties in the event something happens to blow up the relationship and prevents your family member from obtaining new debt on the properties without you knowing about it.
  • Title Representative · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2023 · 82 posts · 51 votes
    2y

    Getting into business with family only ends in one of two ways, and its often times not positive. Is there a specific reason preventing the owner from selling to you outright? I would think it'd be pretty simple to calculate his actual rent income based on the properties current conditions and explain that at best, the tenants in place stay for years to come, he continues doing the bare minimum, and his highest predicted income is x dollars, barring any emergency spending to keep the tenants happy. Compare that to your offered purchase price and surely it would be more profitable for him to wipe his hands clean and let you take over.

  • Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2016 · 304 posts · 153 votes
    2y

    Just a friendly reminder, get a professional inspection.  I'd insist on an invasive inspection if needed.  ( In my area, inspections are just what is seen to the eye.  An invasive inspection, with approval, is cutting the hole in the drywall if that is what is needed to get to the root of a problem.)  Also, check the electrical panel and amt of juice per unit.  That can be an expensive and time consuming project. 

  • Member since 2023 · 39 posts · 18 votes
    2y

    It doesn't sound crazy, numbers look good, if you know you can make it work, why not?

  • Real Estate Consultant · Reston, VA · Member since 2022 · 513 posts · 521 votes
    2y

    Regarding your accounting software question, look into Baselane. Baselane has banking capabilities, bookkeeping capabilities and property management functions like rent collection. As someone who has taken over multiple units at once before, it can be hard to onboard new properties on certain softwares. Baselane makes onboarding new properties very easy!

  • Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 236 votes
    2y

    I would purchase it outright and not mess with seller cary financing (dont want to have any problems at the Thanksgiving table)

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Phoenix Arizona · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 686 votes
    2y

    Fly me there. 

    It's my expertise. 

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